Fineman story came from two women on hijacked bus -police
The police yesterday said that a man claiming to be the notorious `Fineman’ had told two women on the bus hijacked on the Aroaima Trail in June that he had killed “nine persons” at Lindo Creek and burnt their bodies.
Rondel Rawlins
It has been believed that eight persons, Dax Arokium, Cedric Arokium, Compton Speirs, Horace Drakes, Clifton Wong, Lancelot Lee, Bonny Harry and Nigel Torres were murdered at the mining camp. Yesterday’s statement also for the first time definitively linked two gunmen killed at Goat Farm to the hijacking of the bus.
In a press release last evening, the Guyana Police Force (GPF) said that it wishes to again empathise with the family members of those persons who were murdered at Lindo Creek but expressed concern about recent statements made by relatives.
After giving DNA samples on Tuesday, some relatives had expressed the view that the Joint Services had been involved in the killing of the miners at Lindo creek last month. This view had earlier been expressed by another relative but the lawmen had strongly denied this. The police yesterday declared that some relatives of the deceased rather than waiting on the findings of the currently ongoing investigations “prefer to make statements which have no evidential or factual basis.”
The police declared that owner of the mining camp: Leonard Arokium, who has accused the Joint Services of committing the heinous act, has not produced one person to corroborate his story. The release said that Arokium cited several persons that told him different stories concerning: the Joint Services killed the men at Lindo Creek, the Joint Services killed a cow and ate with members of the Arokium camp and the Joint Services ranks would usually transport these men from the UNAMCO road to the camp area.
The lawmen asserted that the guards at the UNAMCO gate and the camp attendant at Number 69 mining camp were contacted and denied speaking to Arokium or telling him any of the stories he related. The statement said that the woman who called Arokium from Kwakwani said that she had heard a rumour and told him so. Stabroek News was unable to contact Arokium last night on the lawmen’s statement.
“The investigators have unearthed evidence from two women who were on a bus that was hijacked by a man who allegedly called himself ‘Fineman’ along with others and who said that he had killed nine persons and burnt their bodies and the Joint Services could not see the smoke”, the release declared. Eight persons were believed to have been killed at Lindo Creek.
The statement added that subsequently the Joint Services encountered the gang at Goat Farm and two were killed. “They have been identified by persons who were on the bus that they were with the persons who hijacked the bus on the day in question along with the man who called himself ‘Fineman’”, the release stated adding that this information has been related to Arokium by the Police Office of Professional Responsibility and “he said that he was speaking things that he had heard”.
The police further said that a woman, Patricia Hutson Esquire, who is a relative of Speirs, has said that the Commissioner of Police is lying and called on her “to tell us what the truth is as she seems to know it and to stop using the emotionalism which surrounds such issues to make irresponsible statements.”
“If anyone knows what is the truth, other than what the investigators have unearthed, they have a responsibility to come forward and disclose what they know”, the lawmen said adding that the force holds that view that Esquire in calling on the United Nations Office to intervene, “should also mention the plight of the many other families left scarred and distraught by the Bartica and Lusignan murders, and not focus on the Lindo Creek issue alone.”
The police further issued a call on all concerned including the press “to act responsibly in this matter and allow the current investigations to take their course.”
Police had said they encountered Rondell Rawlins called ‘Fineman’ and his gang during a confrontation at Christmas Falls on June 6. They said that one of the gunmen was killed while six others managed to escape.
The eight miners were believed to have been murdered sometime after this date.
Shortly after the confrontation, on June 16 a group of gunmen hijacked a busload of passengers on the Aroaima trail and disappeared. Police killed two gunmen subsequently at Goat Farm, located some 90 miles from Christmas Falls and arrested a teenager at Ituni.
The two men killed at Goat Farm were identified as Cecil Ramcharran called ‘Uncle Willie’ and Robin Chung called ‘Chung Boy’. Yesterday’s statement was the first time that police have definitively linked them to the hijacking. Police had earlier said that ballistics tests on the spent shells discovered at the Lindo Creek scene found that they matched one of the weapons that was recovered by the security forces following the confrontation at Goat Farm.
The teen was subsequently charged with the February 17 Bartica killings.
The skull and bones were discovered by Arokium on a visit to Camp Lindo on June 21.
Police have so far not explained how the gang would have moved 90 miles from the original confrontation with weapons and supplies when they were supposed to have been on the run. The police have also not explained how since the Joint Services had control of the area there was no sign of smoke from the camp when the bodies were being burnt sometime in June after the June 6 Christmas Falls shootout.
quote:
Police have so far not explained how the gang would have moved 90 miles from the original confrontation with weapons and supplies when they were supposed to have been on the run. The police have also not explained how since the Joint Services had control of the area there was no sign of smoke from the camp when the bodies were being burnt sometime in June after the June 6 Christmas Falls shootout.
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They can produce witnesses, they can coerce confesions, they can even fabricate forensic evidence. What they cannot do is explain the illogical. The state is banking on the demonstrable limited attention span of many in Guyana to get around these variables that impeaches their theory.
You hit the nail on the head”demonstrable limited attention span of many in Guyana ——-”Could it be that they were air lifted?????
The Commissioner is responsible for any inaccruacy. He should have ben forthwith with the nation about what he knew. He was not there is the first place. These ladies, are they sure it was fineman? because, the Commissioner said he was still ttrapped in the jungle all that and this time.
What really does Mr. Greene know of this matter? How come the JS did not atleast observed what was happening a few miles away? The SMOKE, GUNSHOTS, SCREAMS – in a place that should have been quiet and the JS I’m sure had been listening for sounds from various directions.
Maybe Fineman should make a call to some credible institution and indicate when he was the one. maybe, he can allow the conversation to be audibly recorded to avoid spectulations.
FINEMAN – if you are alive and accessible to a phone make that call. Perchance you are reading this now, pleace come forward with what you did.
Why would Fineman go to all that trouble to burn bodies and then go and tell people that he did the crime.oh please GPF stop thinking we are all a set of dummies.
Guy123, I applaud your reasoning here. Also, why did it take the ‘ladies’ weeks to be coerced ahem! I mean come forth with this ‘evidence’?
Justice 4all you hit the nail on the head with this statement, “They can produce witnesses, they can coerce confessions, they can even fabricate forensic evidence. What they cannot do is explain the illogical.” However please be mindful of this… remember that this is the same Police Force that has always been and is still feeding us statements like this, “The suspect, armed with a deadly (sic) tooth-pic attacked a bunch of fully armed officers who were then forced to shoot to kill.” Or even this one, “A crazed suspect was shot and killed today after he attacked an armed-to-the-teeth police contingent with a deadly plastic butter knife.” (sic)
Using that same type of arcane logic in the preceding two examples, they feed us this latest tale. At least you have to give them points for being consistent.
Well, this is a declaration by the police a lot of people won’t like to read…it is unbelievable to them (readers) that it was Fineman Rawlins who did the killings, they would prefer to read that the joint services killed the miners. Now two people who were on the hijacked bus have given evidence that Fineman himself told them he killed the miners. Arokium is blaming the joint services for the killings but until now he can’t bring forward his two “witnesses” who he mentioned called him.
If Stabroek News hadn’t been editing and completely deleteing several of my posts over the past two weeks, my take on the whole story would have been seen as the same thing SN will bring as news later.
Arokium should have thought carefully before he came out with his blasting statement about what happened to his men, now that statement will come back to haunt him.
Is Arokium the investigating officer? No. Therefore he is free to give the information he had right or wrong the investigators will pronounce.
Mackydog,! u think u r the only one, my friend, take a # and get in line (lol) SN has done the same to me from the inception, maybe they protected me, just as they r protecting you, (maybe,) from the inception, when this terrible incident occurred, I read Mr. Arokium statements, not that I’m not sorry for his son and brother death, trust me I’m, but when I wrote concerning what I thought, SN threw it out. What we have to do now is await the outcome, (if there’s going to be one,) then and only then, you and I would remind all what we thought in the first place, so, let’s hang in there Mackydog, hang in there.
Come on you have to admit that this statement from the police is highly suspicious …
“The investigators have unearthed evidence from two women who were on a bus that was hijacked by a man who allegedly called himself ‘Fineman’ along with others and who said that he had killed nine persons and burnt their bodies and the Joint Services could not see the smoke”
How would Fineman or anyone else on the bus know if the Joint Services were able to see the smoke. Also does it make sense that Fineman left all those dead bodies in Lusignan and Bartica but took the time to burn these men. The most powerful tool we have as humans is our ability to reason and think logically, the sad thing is we don’t always use this power because of misguided allegiances.
Read again mackydog,” the Police said that a man CLAIMING to be the notorious ‘fineman’ had told two women on the bus hijacked……..” ,there was never a positive ID, just a claim from two women, is that admissible/workable evidence coming from third party who wasn’t sure who they saw? Would a fugitive on the run take so much time to rob a camp, hang out overnight then murder the occupants, then burn the bodies and part othe camp, and if I am not wrong wrap the burnt remains in tarpaulin not to mention before all this they cooked and had dinner, then rob a bus a far distance away(did they use one of the Bell206 helicopters to get there?) and took the time to inform to brag with two women about their acts. Do you know how long it takes to burn a human body to the state they claimed it was in? People will not just accuse the joint services unless they ware given reasons to do so. They have not made any sense so far in their varying statements except holding firm to the theory of ‘fineman’ even before they began investigations. I’ve read bettter detective fictions as a child, let them try convincing the elemantary school kids.
I am beginning to think you are on the Joint Service side. All the facts are stairing you in the face and it seems you still don’t believe they had nothing to do with the murders. At one time, finaman was trapped in the jungle, then suddenly he hijacked a minibus and disclosed to the passengers he killed the miners (are you kidding me???). Also, how come the JS didn’t investigate the smoke from the burning? Were they even in the jungle and in hot pursuit of fineman and his gang to begin with? Why would fineman and his gang go through all that trouble to burn the bodies knowning that the smoke would bring some attention to that location unless it was some other group of men (JS possibly???) who were trying to cover up what they did.
Whom are you kidding, Mackydog! OK, we are going by what the police said; remember they had a suspect in custody? What happened to that suspect? Now it is two ladies who claimed it was fineman, how credible are these ladies? The state as a whole don’t have too much going for it in terms of credibility!
Listen, the onus (burden of proof) is on the joint services to prove that they are not the guilty party. They are doing a poor job of it. Just making up different stories would and should not let this go away. How could fineman be in two places at the same time? If it was fineman, should we presume that the police were lying about this whole Christmas Falls scenario?
As I mentioned before (in one of my post) Green, legal mind and all, is doing a lousy job at safeguarding his force. In view of the present circumstances I give him a C-.
Now, the thought by kabaka about being air lifted might be food for thought!
Mackydog what was ‘fineman’ motive telling the people on the bus he killed “nine persons” and burnt their bodies? Well, who in Guyana to this day do not know ‘fineman’ and what he looks like? Why didn’t the Joint Services see the smoke billowing in the air sir?
Mackydog it seems like you believe in Fibs. Those are bed time stories the authorities are telling people son. I cannot tell that to my 14 years old high school daughter, she would be asking me more questions than I won’t have answers for.
Can you give me some of those answers Mackydog it is not hard for you to tell, use logics smart guy?
I await your reply.
i am sorry but how come fineman and gang disappear it makes the police and army a complete waste of time .
venezuela or brazil can come with 20 soldiers and invade and takeover guyana .
man what a joke
U said it redindian, what a joke, can u believe that,? other persons can enter Guyana and the GDF and GPF would not be able to find them, much more fight them, shame on them, and ashamed to be one of the old WAC’s, things has really changed, just the thought of your blog, makes sense, dam, the police cannot control crime and protect citizens, the GDF cannot protect the country.
You should ask what is the compliment of troops in the GDF, ahd their ground and air capabilities. This is a serious matter, remember when some Surinamese marines chsed a few Guyanese in the Courantyne, into Crabwood creek on land and almost into a Police station, this is an “eye pass” man.
Bravo redindian!
To fully appreciate what you just said there you have to consider that Fineman and his cohorts are not a crack Commando team. Nor are they an elite trained American Marine squad. These bandits and a loose bunch of killers on the run in what has to be unfamiliar territory. Yet our illustrious Joint Services have been thus far unsuccessful at locating and apprehending them. Heaven help us all if Brazil, Venezuela or Suriname decides to send a Boy-Scout team to attack us or rendition one of our citizens.
I guess that they (the JS) might be taking consolation in the fact that the Americans are also unable to locate and apprehend Bin Laden… hmmm!
Why would fineman tell the women on the bus that was being highjacked that he murdered these men,that is a smoke screen an a joke. They are finemen in the army and they could have been a fine man within the group of military persons who could have done this act, and in order to try to throw persons off decided to give the impression that he is fineman.The other thing is why elaborate on your identity and why not kill the women in the bus, he may as well had left two of the murdered victims alive to tell the tale as to who killed the others. Why should anyone believe anything that the police force and this Government has to say on this issue? I guess because you don’t have to be qualified to be a politician means that you could dish out any nonsense and the public will accept it, times have changed and they are many ways now to access information, tecnology has improved,only a few weeks ago I overheard a radio announcer here in Cayman making fun of the Delta Airways incident and the illusive fineman. The world is watching on and it is time that our leaders act responsible and do the right thing.
Guyanese have a shallow memory. Think about the incident on the east coast where those people were robbed at success. Who was responsible for it. A known party activist. Think about the so called robberies in Black Bush Polder & the men leaving bag behind by a gate with ballistic evidence.
GUYANESE WE NEED TO UNITE. UNITY IS STRENGHT
What makes Mr . Green’s hearsay any better or believable than Mr. Arokium’s?
Pray tell me!
Even when people have concrete evidence they are afraid to come forward – for fear their of their own life and that of their family.
Little wonder so many crime go unsolved
Oh my God. Can you guys stop printing stories that I personally do not believe. You guys just want my uncle to stay shut quiet and take what ever the police is saying. Why would fine man tell people on the bus that he killed eight miners. I do not see why the whole police force can find fineman. If he is in the bush burn the bush and see what comes out. One man can’t have guyana like that and everybody is still walking the street like nothing is happening. COME ON. I want to read something more believable that I can swallow because what I read everyday is nonsense. My uncle is not a man to make story up, leave the stories to the children and as adults the police is not doing there job. Because all this time they can find one man so it must be the police. Keep the PRESSURE my uncle.
Why did it take the police 5 weeks to present this information. They could have released this information a month ago. Why did they trample on a crime scene then ask for outside assitance in solving the crime. There’s more to this than meets the eye.
I don’t know Nuff, but they did trample on the crime scene, every one was there, that place should have been protected, sloppy work, sloppy investigation, it’s going to come out, we need not to allow these to go unresolved.