Comments on: Weak signal detected from missing plane

By: Youth Corps

Youth Corps — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 02:39:14 +0000

Unfortunately, this is not a sophisticated military operation so I will leave it the way it is.

However, this aircraft: according to recent “intelrepo” did not crah
it flew on and over SBPV. There is more to it than that.

By: The African

The African — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:55:36 +0000

8R-DAW I would like to apologize for my previous remarks. My frustrations with the situation got the better of me. Knowing the missing pilots’ and searchers’ experience enables me to answer a lot of these kind of questions. Everyone down there are my friends and co-workers and it makes me a little defensive on their behalf. Let’s hope and pray that they will be found soon…

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:30:20 +0000

Bill,

I think at this time the family and friends dealing with this do not need any negativity. We all hope these men will be found soon. Please keep a positive attitude.

By: 8R-DAW

8R-DAW — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:21:44 +0000

When Captain sharma crashed some time ago, The aircraft was quickly found due to the fact that a survivor could direct the search party to the exact spot, and also that the destination and route of the aircraft, and also take off time was known. Even then there were not as many critics as there are now. As a pilot, I will continue to criticize the people responsible for aviation in Guyana.Our pilots are flying the same way the have always flown, without navigational aids necessary to guarantee to some degree safe flying in adverse weather conditions. I don’t know how many of the guys flying back home are instrument rated, so they could fly under IMC, which would not help much since due to loss of visibility and lack of navigational aids, they would be flying literally blind. I respect the guys who are flying back home, and I miss some of those who have lost their lives in our jungle. Our weather reporting system is not safe, the pilot calls in to the interior location he’s going to, by radio he is told the airstrip condition, and sky conditions, when he gets there the weather has changed. I rember a case where the pilot recieved an airstrip wet- but -firm report, when the aircraft landed, the runway condition was totally the contrary, the aircraft slid off the runway and punctured a tire. I can tell a lot of stories of flights into our interior. So please, it is not enough to say that our country is doing what it can with what it has, nothing is changing, improvements are not being made. The actual situation shows that due to lack of preparation (of those searching for the aircraft), the people on board the missing aircraft, if they were or are in need of urgent assistance, may now be beyond help. We should ask neighbouring countries for assistence with aircraft and technology.

By: Steve

Steve — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:23:44 +0000

Good news. A weak signal can only be heard in the immediate vicinity of the aircraft. This would indicate that the search area has in fact been narrowed. A stronger signal would be detected in a wider area. keep up the good work, you are almost there!

By: 8R-DAW

8R-DAW — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:01:28 +0000

African, I am a helicopter and fixed wing pilot, I fly for an oil company, I have been involved in various search and rescue operations, both land and sea, I have carried technicians monitoring ELTs, the mechanism uses a grid system with an electronic map, once you pick up a signal, you record your position at the time, then you coordinate other aircraft in which direction to fly, each aircraft will then report the signal strength they recieve, this way you eliminate the areas where there is lost of signal and a least one aircraft remains where it is recieving the signal. I have found a few aircraft this way. Do you think it is audacious of me to say that the foreign pilots do not know Guyana’s jungle. Do these pilots fly in Guyana’s hinterlands on a day -to-day basis? Do they have the same experience as our pilots, in our jungle? They are there to assist in the search, not co-ordinate the search. The problem is not if they have bush-flying experience, it is if they are aquainted with Guyana’s jungle. I would rather a Guyanese show me around Guyana than a foreigner. Reports say that they have picked up a weak signal, are they still recieving this signal or have they lost it?

By: Michelle Furlotte

Michelle Furlotte — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:20:54 +0000

so do i. My HEART tell me they are still with us

By: Michelle Furlotte

Michelle Furlotte — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:13:12 +0000

Please find them, you are doing a great job.

By: The African

The African — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 04:05:46 +0000

I believe this link will answer a lot of questions regarding ELT’s and SAR Ops etc. SarTech has made the most accurate, reasonable statement about ELT’s to date. http://www.casaraontario.ca/~ottawa1/Presentations/elthoming.ppt Pay particular attention to the photos of the crash at 500 ft. and at 200 ft (bearing in mind that those pictures are of an open forest, not dense jungle). The King Air is not all that much bigger than the light plane depicted.

By: Kaieteur Gold

Kaieteur Gold — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 03:49:35 +0000

How about a (the) movie? Save all the “videos” when you make the trip into Guyana’s beautiful (and sometimes treacherous) jungle guys. Good luck.

By: joe ibrahim

joe ibrahim — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 02:09:14 +0000

well said stone 80 . there is only so much butter for so much bread. resources are tight. in guyana how many of us actually pays sales or income taxes. parking tickets and all the other stuff that generates revenues for guyana. instead all of the business people turn their money into us to maintain that mansion in miami or new york. where is the usa in all of this there are 2 americans on that aircraft. the marines and special forces are nearby. we had all of these resources here in the us and we still could not find steve fosset.
look at the resources we have here and osama is still running loose .

By: joe ibrahim

joe ibrahim — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 01:57:38 +0000

mike and bill you both seem to have the answers, and criticism. why dont you guys take a couple of weeks off and go to guyana and volunteer. your expertise will be very much appreciated by all.

By: Kaieteur Gold

Kaieteur Gold — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 01:55:08 +0000

Without “a-d-e-q-u-a-t-e f-o-r-w-a-r-d p-l-a-n-n-i-n-g a-n-d t-h-i-n-k-i-n-g” by the authorities at the highest levels in Guyana (including the Guyana Defense Force (GDF) this incident (combined assumed plane crash and subsequent search and rescue/search and recovery activities) was a failure/disappointment waiting to happen.

By: The African

The African — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 00:33:22 +0000

Hi all again. If you haven’t yet, please read my previous post here: http://www.stabroeknews.com/news/search-for-missing-aircraft-still-futile/

I would like to acknowledge that frustration levels are running high especially, since it has been so long since they went missing. I would also like to echo the comment of several of the above posts with regards to jungle searching being tough. ["No use involving the foreigners who are involved in the search, they do not know the country."] 8R-DAW we also can’t make assumptions about the experience of the foreigners. How do we know they’ve never searched for and operated in the jungle, it’s a pretty audacious statement to make without knowing the searchers. Again I would ask: Have we been in the jungle with them? Do we know first hand the challenges they are facing? Have we ever tried to track an ELT before? How can we assume the searchers have been doing a poor job unless we have been there first hand to see what is actually going on and participating? With all due respect to those who are frustrated about not knowing what’s going on, let’s give them the benefit of the doubt, particularly since we don’t know anything about situation on the ground.

By: The African

The African — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 00:17:55 +0000

Unless you folks have a greater understanding of ELT’s than I do, what you propose (2 square inches) is not possible. The jungle canopy acts as a “roof” to signals coming in and going out, explaining why the signal is weak. Depending on which ELT the aircraft had installed (121.5 Mhz or 406 Mhz) also dictates what information is provided by the ELT. GPS’s and other devices don’t work as well under 2-3 layers of canopy (a typical aircraft GPS cannot find satellites in a hangar). As far as I know there is not a system that could pick up a weak ELT signal and pinpoint it. Compare it to two people going out in the woods with walkie talkies and trying to find each other based on signal strength, that’s essentially what they’re dealing with.

By: SarTech

SarTech — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:46:20 +0000

That weak signal should have been used to preform an Aural Null ELT Homing search. It’s very frustrating sitting on the sidelines and watching this search going from bad to worse.

By: Tazz

Tazz — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 21:58:49 +0000

i dont think he knew the British was looking for them 2……….besides its a blame game now . so its all on Guyana.

By: jorick

jorick — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 21:19:35 +0000

I have toagree that at this point the search and rescue operation does not seem to have been handled as well as it could have been. I understand that it is not an easy area to search but it seems to be taking a longer time then it should. The families of the missing men are keeping up hope but it gets harder as each day goes by. As a family friend of Patricks I can only say our thoughts and prayers are with him and the two crew members and their friends and family and that this will come to a happy ending soon.

By: Arnold

Arnold — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:52:30 +0000

The Adventurer/record holder in hot air ballons and aircrafts, Steve Fosset went missing, in California, after more than 6 months OF SEARCHING, with the
Most Advanced State of the Art Technology Could not be Found or Located.
One year later and by sheer Luck, a cattle farmer found his wallet with his pilots license, and didn’t even know who it was, reported,,,,,, later the wreckagewas found….
With the little that Guyana has and the help of the British and the Dynamic aviation and Guyanas’ Bush Veteran Pilots are trying their best, Desperation pushes any one to criticise.

By: 8R-DAW

8R-DAW — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:57:30 +0000

Arnold, the fact is that the commercial jetliner disentegrated at above 20000 feet, the rest was free fall. At the time of the accident, the tower had apparently lost radar contact with both planes. reason for the accident, most likely.

By: Mireille

Mireille — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:28:16 +0000

Couldn’t the searcher go to the villages in the regions of the missing plane and ask for the help of the natives?

By: Arnold

Arnold — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:24:54 +0000

Quiban,, not Bill alone is saying so others also, British Pilots with their helicoptors are incompetent also, all those Veteran Bush Pilots that are engaged in the search are incompetent too.
Comparing a Commercial Jet-liner with a Beech King is a is such a gran difference, the destruction ratio on crashing!! Commercial Jet gives almost minutely coordinates, whereby a small aircraft 2 or 3 calls hourly giving their ground position.

By: Ms Musa

Ms Musa — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:21:44 +0000

bill delage, are you saying the british are incompetent too? as i recall they have been searching since day one. have you ever been in guyana or any jungle before?

I second that comment quibian. What folks fail to realize is that Guyana is an extremely poor country. Many of these sophisticated search and rescue methods readily available in 1st world coutries simply are not readily at hand in Guyana. Even in the best conditions flying over that region is perilous. My prayers go out to those missing and I pray that God keeps them safe.

By: stone80

stone80 — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:18:01 +0000

Most of these people here have never been into the interior to know what the rain forest looks like.The plane can go down into a little opening and it will be impossible to see from above,Because how tick the vegatation is,this is not black sage bush.
Maybe they can relate to steve fosset,how big a search part was out there.
Guyana only have so much.