Int’l law is fair. The common trend in int’l border rivers is using a mid point. If Guyana was only to show an interest in such an arrangement, in the light of a seemingly inconclusive treaty, an international arbitration should go in that direction.

but the Guyana govt. is dropping the ball by just allowing Suriname to enforce jurisdiction at will. The only reason I can see them doing this, is if they don’t want the responsibility of law enforcement in the river, but again, that makes no business sense.

By the way, Suriname has proven itself a relatively provocative and aggressive neighbour. The last thing that we want is for Surinamese soldiers to have full legal grounds for ego driven excesses, examples to numerous to mention.

I don’t see anyone pointing a finger at Holland & England that they made crappy deal!

I think you make an excellent point here: “I think if this goes to an international court, Suriname could be very happy, especially if Guyana keeps bubblin”.

I think that this is why Guyanese govt is not officially fighting the issue. They may know the outcome, and would rather keep the situation as is, so they can keep making unofficial claims, proving that Suriname is an aggressive and provocative neighbor.

They already know how to fight such issues, they have the experience with the territorial seas issue. And yet they fail to address this issue accordingly.

You know when I will be happy? When I read that Jagdeo has set a team in place to start gathering information to bring this matter to court.

I am POSITIVE you won’t need to worry about Guyana’s industry when a ruling is given in favor of Suriname. In EVERY country, when you want perform economic activities on, or using the other’s territory, there are regulations to abide by, and maybe certain fees to pay. These regulations are not set by the guy at the mouth of the river, but in the laws of Suriname. Right now those laws don’t prohibit Guyana to use the river. They only require ANY (read: Surinamese included) ship/vessel with a load capacity of over 50 tons, to be guided by a Surinamese pilot VESSEL.

Let me make a point. I ask this, because most of what we say (both you and me) we get from hear say.

The Guyanese people I know in Suriname love Suriname, and would not return to Guyana, because they like the way they are treated in Suriname. But I cannot assume that this is true for all Guyanese in Suriname, because the group I know is not a real representation of the whole group.

Same goes for the history of our borders. None of us were there when agreements were reached or not. Most of us have never read the original documents of agreements and rulings. We only read interpretations of historians and others and form our opinion based on that. The problem with this is that, I see what I was taught as fact, and so do you. We both may have different interpretations of a document or ruling, or are given an account differently, and yet we both believe that we are right.

The ITCLOS ruling is an example. This ruling sets a clear border in the seas. Jagdeo mentions 5 or 6 points where Guyana has been triumphant, but Venetiaan tells his people that, although the ruling favored Guyana more, Guyana did not get as much of the seas as they proposed.

This is why I continue to say: GO TO COURT. Let the lawyers of both countries study the documents and make their case, so the court can make a ruling.

Given the facts at hand (Jagdeo doesn’t retaliate, Jagdeo doesn’t address this matter at the Security meeting of Caricom, Jagdeo hasn’t officially discussed this with Venetiaan) I believe that the Guyanese government is hesitant to challenge Suriname officially on this matter, maybe because they themselves believe that Suriname may be correct in their assumption. They “wrote to UN and Caricom” to express their grieve, but I don;t see any record to indicate that they FORMALLY challenged Suriname’s authority, except when they appeared in the media, only to later say that it’s the media who “selectively pick up information.

These facts tell me that there is a little more going on than we (the people) are aware of. We end up fighting and bickering, while there is still nothing done formally to address the issue. And this is why I say “STOP THIS MADNESS and get it over with.” I want to live side by side with my neighbors. I want to invite my friends over without fear of them being harassed because of this issue.

About “jokingly”: What I understand is that in informal conversation (probably over a drink or something) Jagdeo tried to address this issue, while trying not to appear hostile/attacking about the matter. Something like “Man, why you seizing my boats?” while smiling, and maybe padding him on the shoulder. Again, this is my interpretation of the account.

Is the account in de Ware Tijd true? Is the report given by the minister true? I don’t know. But until I read objections from the parties mentioned in the article, I will assume it is.

It specified that the West Coast/Bank of the Corentyne belonged to Berbice, because in the interim (because of the war and because of no specific delineations), Suriname authorities were granting concessions on the West Coast Corentyne.

Secondly, it explicitly gave the islands in the River to Suriname. If the entire River belonged to Suriname, it would be understood that Islands in the river would be Suriname’s and there would be no need to state it. Nothing specifically says that Leguan is Guyanese territory cause it’s understood that all the islands in the Essequibo form part of Guyana.

Thirdly, the treaty allows people from Suriname to trade with Amerindians in the River…….that would also be a given if the river was entirely Suriname’s.

Bottom line both sides were treating it as though it had the common characteristics of an border river.

I have no reason to doubt the account of the de Ware Tijd article cause sadly that’s governments M.O.

I think that they are some really smart people in Suriname. I think if this goes to an international court, Suriname could be very happy, especially if Guyana keeps bubblin. An international river is usually divided down the middle, but at this point Suriname can prove that its not an international river by just building up proof that they are solely exercising jurisdiction over the river. ENACTING AND ENFORCING LAWS, issuing fishing and transport license and showing that their military is the only legitimate force in the river.

My concern is for Guyanese industries that depend on using the river, and the bureaucracy of having it have a Surinamese directly involved on every craft. Also the fact that Surinamese military are very disrespectful to Guyanese (LoveGT 4 Real’s Orealla example).

NOT ONE GOLDEN APPLE
NOT ONE JAMMOON
NOT A DROP O WATER FROM THE POMEROON

“TIME FOR THE TRUE GUYANESE WARRIORS TO RETURN IN DEFENSE”

For unlike the officers who torture the people and call it roughing up, the real GT warlords will rise.

“Keep it “LIT”
“Love and “Light”"

One thing i will never do and that is kill another man (unless i am fighting a war),

Yall living in America under false pretence wait till Obama gets into power he sending back them old Guyanese backtrackers so you MACKYDOG and COLT 45 and DEAD MAN CAESAR plus BLIND EYES, i will be yall platoon commander!!!

Jagdeo needs to address the nation on this issue immediately. If the river is not solely owned by Suriname, then the Guyanese people have a right to know this, so people can stop paying Suriname for license to fish.

Red Lion the Gov’t can speak for itself, they are yet to take up Peeping Toms challenge, we surely don’t need apologists.

in relation to your earlier comment; Have you visited Suriname recently and saw the bridges especially the one across the Suriname river?

You can be patriotic without being conceited.