Dear Editor,
My old friend Freddie Kissoon in his daily column, “Democracy is coffee! Democracy is Obama!,” (KN 10-12-09), has once again accused my friend Ravi Dev of being a PPP apologist. He cited Ravi Dev’s Sunday Column, “Democracy is not coffee,” (KN 10-11-09) and so I decided to read Ravi’s article with great care. After doing so several times I did have a few questions for Ravi.
Ravi wrote of the PNC, “By introducing the radical ideology of “co-operative socialism” it dismissed most of the ideals of the liberal democracy that the British had grudgingly introduced in our modern era.” My first question is, did the PPP not advocate Soviet-style Marxism Leninism or Communism which dismisses all of the ideals of liberal democracy? Would you rather have had some liberal democracy as practised by the PNC or none at all as preferred by the PPP’s brand of Communism?
Ravi also wrote, “The PNC insisted on the “paramountcy of the party” over the state; i.e. that the party in power took precedence over the organs of state.” My second question to Ravi is, is party paramountcy not a tenet of Marxism Leninism as championed by the PPP? In fact did the PPP not give critical support to the PNC during its “co-operative socialism” era? Is it not true that the PPP criticized the PNC for not implementing true socialism? Is it not true that the PPP and PNC held power sharing talks in the early 1980’s and had agreed to establish a one party state?
Ravi further wrote, “One would have thought that with the procedural aspect of democracy reinstated in the 1992 elections it would have been understood that there would be the need to make radical changes in the institutions of government and state – away from the totalitarian impositions of the PNC.” There were expectations that Dr Jagan and the PPP would have indeed usher in real democratic changes, especially with the collapse of the Communism in the Soviet Empire. But did he change the co-operative socialist state which he had given critical support? If the PPP believed in substantive democracy why then did it in January 1993 urge its members to keep studying Marxism?
Ravi wrote, “In the absence of a Democratic Pact, if(what) the opposition wanted (was) a return of a substantive democracy…were not democratic means the way to go? It was not to be. They adopted a scorched earth policy towards the new government…” Does Ravi accept that whilst Hoyte had breached procedural democracy in rigging the 1985 elections he soon after began to deconstruct the co-operative socialist state and began to slowly rebuild substantive democracy which led to the return of procedural democracy via free and free elections in 1992? Did Dr Jagan and the PPP continue to build substantive democracy? Was not Dr Jagan and the PPP’s continuation of remnants of totalitarianism the cause of Hoyte’s rage?
Ravi would probably reply, “The PPP had to act more as a player in the anarchy of the Hobbessian inter-state system than in the putatively settled intra-state order. In this milieu, the PPP has evidently chosen to be “realists” thus augmenting their own tendencies on control and power.” Is this not justification for the way the PPP has governed? Would it not have been better for the security and welfare of all Guyanese had the PPP sought help from the United Nations in dealing with the violence? Isn’t that what political parties and governments committed to both procedural and substantive democracy do? But then it would have had to relinquish its dictatorial exercise of power and control over Guyana so better to resort to extra judicial means which brings more control and power.
Yours faithfully,
Malcolm Harripaul
The thrust is on to enroll as many East Indians to buttress the madness perpetrated by the PPP. The idea is to let East Indians speak more directly with the Indian masses which in itself gives credence. The more you infused anti-PNC, anti-black and implied racism, the more binding the ideas become.
Ravi Dev is just another servant who must eat at his master’s feet. His pro-Indian activism and militancy was once admired by many, but today we can see him cowering at the doormat of Freedom House. His intellectualism is just a facade. What a shame!
Among the false premises from Mr. Harripaul:
–PNC was building “co-operative socialism”. False. That was just a cover to ingratiate the PNC elite with growing political clout of developing countries and further cement itself in power.. The PNC rule was more correcly neo-fascist.
–”PPP’s Marxism-Leninism was more totalitarian”. Wrong. Equating PPP’s ideology with mistakes in Soviet Union and elswhere does not mean Marxism-Lenisism inherently evil or unworkakable and democratic.. Look at China today with its reforms and Cuba.Long may we respect the Chinese and Cuban peoples for excercising their democratic rights and freedom in supporting their governments !
–”Hoyte was a liberal-democrat forced to rig elections and then overseered true elections”. Nonsense. Hoyte continued with Burnham’s rigging to try and maintain state power for Afro-Guyanese .Hoyte was dragged screaming into real world of democarcy and forced to AGREE to 1992 elections by perseverance of main opposition PPP, the stark realities of bankrupt Guyanese economy at the juncture and realisation that intenatinal financial agencies would no longer bankroll the middle class PNC elite and its hangers on (among other reasons)…
If you start from false premises you end up with false conlusions as does Mr. Harripaul , probably being misinformed.
OK Folks,
Yesterday we started a new show called “THE BIG LIE”. Welcome to today’s edition.
Reddy ‘rites “Among the false premises from Mr. Harripaul: –PNC was building “co-operative socialism”.
Harripaul’s statement reads thus “RAVI WROTE of the PNC,”By introducing the radical ideology of “co-operative socialism” it dismissed most of the ideals of the liberal democracy that the British had grudgingly introduced in our modern era”
Harripaul was quoting Ravi Dev word for word And because it was so early in the letter, Even you Norman could not have missed it so I must conclude that this is your first entry into today’s edition of the “THE BIG LIE”
–”Hoyte was a liberal-democrat forced to rig elections and then overseered true elections”. I can’t read anywhere where Malcom said that Hoyte was forced to rig elections.
—-Way to go Reddy make up something that the man never said then refute your invention. — Go for the Whopper…Da Beeeeeg Lie.
Only thing that I can’t argue with is “If you start from false premises you end up with false conlusions”
Reddy I think you are in the group of advisers to the present.
Griot, I see you are good at spotting missing dots on “I’s” and all that. It would be more fruitful in the debate if you reply to the essence of what I wrote. I said Premises– not exact quotes of what Harripaul wrote……
In my seventh line in my post the word should be undemocratic rather than democratic…….Peace
Faria makes up stuff.
Reds ‘rites
“It would be more fruitful in the debate if you reply to the essence of what I wrote”
There was nothing of essence to respond to. It was all DA BIG ONE…
Red rover what are you jumping up and down about?
Your ppp is a loser operation. They are a massive failure, accept that and lets agree on that will you?
Haul your canoe across the airport……..
Reddy seems to admire China and Cuba but will not make reference to the total human collateral damage inflicted by the Chinese and Cuban dictatorships .Such ommissions are called memory lapses or ,just plain ignorance of the realities .The more I read posts attempting to defend the PPP’s and PNC’s records the more I am comvinced Guyanese are DELUSIONAL ! No one dragged Hoyte screaming into a real world of democracy nor was he forced to agree to 1992 free and fair elections ! fact of the matter is that Guyana was bankrupt , no more loans nor grants were forthcoming and Hoyte wanted out but , and this is a big BUT , with favors . So Jagan agreed to free and fair elections in which he knew he would win , not commission an inquiry into the PNC’s dictatorship , pardon Hoyte and the PNC and just forgive and forget the past.
Questions for Malcolm Harripaul? Why did you join the PNC-controlled army in the days of cooperative socialism and party paramountcy? Why did you scuttle away from the sinking PNC ship in 1992 and jump aboard the Marxist-Leninist PPP flying fleet? Why did you then hop off a fast-moving PPP train with Cheddi Jagan in the driver’s seat and grasp at the tail of Ravi Dev’s ROARing jaguar? Why are you now asking Ravi Dev stupid questions while breaking into his mind to state what he “would probably reply?” Are you planning to ask your “old friend” Freddie Kissoon stupid questions in the future? Be careful, political grasshopper Malcolm.
What fast moving PPP train are you referring to yasuman71. You should be talking about the fast moving thiefing train …the PPP new chibats were thiefing from ‘razor blade to cannon’….everything they could stuff in their pockets. If Malcolm really wants to redeem himself, he will talk about what went on with the thiefing when he was at the customs fraud squad…he would explain what happened to him in Miami….he would tell of how a certain big one was saved by Cheddie after being caught in the same situation at the Riggs Bank in DC…..
When you Yasuman71 starts calling people “political grasshopper” – Yasuman71 begins to draw attention to himself.
Yasuman71 is no longer the impartial neutral observer and witty blogger. He is an unabashed PPP apologist and supporter.
Yasuman like most ppp fanatics cannot move beyond the past, they are constantly fixated on the rearview mirror and thus they are always in the ditch or as in Guyana we would say de gutter.
In just a few words, Mr. Kissoon is RIGHT. Reddy, yasuman71 THANK GOD THE TWO YOU DON’T LIVE IN GUYANA.
…. in GUYANA de culture is made up of 2 of the same thing ,, in every sphere of life ! Jagan/burnham ,, sidney king/dis banna — johnny-come-lately to de forum — wid 3 first names vis: malcom ,, harri an paul ,,, any one who has a set of names like dis is bound to lose direction ,,, doan believe me ????
aks sidney king !…..
Reading through the lines, I think Malcolm belong to the distortioist group and he enjoys the freedom in Guy. to be…
Lose your wieght or lose your way! I think Mally asked tome pertinent questions and it is up to Ravi to oblige a categorical response. Anyway, I can resonate with Mally on this extracted piece: “Is this not justification for the way the PPP has governed? Would it not have been better for the security and welfare of all Guyanese had the PPP sought help from the United Nations in dealing with the violence? Isn’t that what political parties and governments committed to both procedural and substantive democracy do? But then it would have had to relinquish its dictatorial exercise of power and control over Guyana so better to resort to extra judicial means which brings more control and power.”
Jagdeo had a chance to call in genuine outside help (Caricom, Commonwealth or UN peacekeeping forces) to deal with the instances of politically-inspired violence, but he inadvertently exposed his government for what it is: a lawless entity, when Roger Khan was allowed to not merely mix and migle with top government officials, but use his drug profits to mobilise a killing squad.
And no one dares bring up the PNC here, because the fact that Jagdeo knew or felt the PNC was involved with criminals and not one PNC official was ever arrested, proves even more that this government is to blame for what the PNC and Khan did!
…. yo Dandy Andy delicate an delectable as de danish cookies ,,, is hoo u tellin dat no “dare bring up de pnc here ” ?????? dat is nat fuh u ,, dat is fuh SN/moderator/AXER ,,, who lapse pon de choppin block ,,, ah feel ‘e mussee de sharpenin de axe ! consider dis a haliday !
but back to u ,, u is nat no wall dat u can put out dare ! u in dis forum is a second tier player ,, and if yuh continue wid dis kineah dictum ,, u will be dealt with severely an lehmeh add very harshly too !
Hey Mike, my dictum – as you call it – on not bringing up the PNC is based on the fact that every time a specific criticism is leveled at the PPP, its apologists try to divert attention by bringing up the PNC, rather than deal with the specific criticism. I am no PNC supporter, by any stretch of the imagination, and would have loved to see Jagdeo take firm action against the PNC if he knew it was in bed with criminal killing innocent people. Anyway, I still support Malcolm’s position that Jagdeo, on recognizing the police and army were not stemming the ide of criminality, had a legal and accetable recourse through Caricom, Commonwealth and the UN, rather than resort to relying on RK and gang!
It is better to read about the mythical Loch Ness monster, Yeti, Big Foot,or the lying theory of UFO’s, than to peruse the childish crap you two contrive to pursue in written form.