–Red Thread

The detention by police of two mothers who lost children under tragic circumstances has been  criticized by the group Red Thread but the lawmen are adamant that they have their work to do. 

In an invited comment, Red Thread on Tuesday said that Bibi Rafzia Grovesnor who lost two children to a senna pod overdose and the pregnant Anita Ramdeo whose two children perished in a fire, were raising their offspring in conditions of extreme poverty and thus should not be criminalized but rather supported and counselled.

In the case of the fire which occurred last Saturday night, Stabroek News understands that Ramdeo was yesterday released on station bail.

In a telephone interview on Tuesday afternoon, Crime Chief Seelall Persaud said that it is a case whether there is a suspicion of homicide and if so whether the mother is a suspect.

He said in the case of the senna overdose case, the mother was released after the post-mortem examination had been completed and it was determined that it was not a homicide.

However he said it can still be a homicide since one could have intentionally given the children the senna pod and laxative “with intent to kill”. In the meantime the investigation into the incident remains open.

Persaud said in the case of the tragic fire, the mother left the children in the house and went out. He said when she was returning she saw the building on fire “but instead of raising an alarm, she ran to a house nearby and sat outside”.

He added that she has given a statement to the police. Asked if the woman should be detained in light of her pregnancy, the crime chief said that “pregnancy is not a defence for crime”.

He noted that an overseas-based woman who was charged with narcotics was pregnant and subsequently delivered her baby while incarcerated.

According to him, the only way the mother can be spared is if the area of detention can cause an infection to her unborn child but at the same time this will have to be determined by medical experts.

Further, Persaud told Stabroek News that if fathers are suspects they too will be detained as the ultimate goal of the investigators would be to determine if it is a case of homicide.

Observers have however noted that given the circumstances the women could have been placed on station bail until the investigation was concluded rather than having to spend traumatic days in the police lock-ups.

Last month Afiena Ramdeen, 5, and Aaliyah Ramdeen, 3, died within a day of each other after Grovesnor gave them senna pod tea followed by an anti-diarrheal tablet. Post-mortem results revealed that dehydration and an overdose of medication caused the deaths of the sisters.

Grovesnor, who was arrested shortly after the first child died, was released from police custody several days later without a charge being laid.

Then on Saturday last 3-year-old Ewan Munroe and his one-year-old brother Isaiah Munroe perished in a fire that engulfed the one-bedroom Hadfield Street shack they lived in with their parents.

Their mother Ramdeo according to reports had left the sleeping children in the home which was lit with a flambeau lamp and ventured to a nearby shop.

When the woman returned, the home was on fire and despite the efforts of residents the children could not be saved.

Criminalized

Andaiye, a member of the Red Thread women’s organization on Tuesday said that “the senna pod mother was picked up as if she was some kind of criminal’.

She pointed out that while it is the job of society to support and defend children, at the same time this cannot be done by criminalizing their mothers.

According to the Red Thread representative, both cases display a clear need for counselling as the women have lost young children, something they have to live with for the rest of their lives.

She said that they have already gone through ‘the horrors” of their children dying.

“We can see that she did not do it on purpose”, Andaiye said in commenting on the senna overdose case adding that the mother did it because she wanted what was best for them.

“It was out of ignorance. She has to live with the loss of her children. She needs help. She needs counselling and support. She and every mother like her needs that”, Andaiye stressed.

She said that the senna pod case clearly shows that there are lots of people out there who need information when it comes to medicating children.

In the case of the fire, she pointed out that it is true that adults should not go out and leave children but there are other issues such as poverty involved and which need urgent redress.

“We have to push for the defence and protection of children but not by criminalizing mothers especially those mothers who are attempting to care for children under conditions of extreme poverty”.

She added that those persons who live in circumstances where they can employ other women to care for their children should not be unsympathetic to those who care for their own without support.

According to Andaiye, these two situations represent a need for issues to be solved at the level of the society, the household and then the individual.

“Red Thread would never deny that there are some women in the world who neglect their children for no good reason but the majority want to do well by their children”, she added.

She said that there are huge societal issues that are not being looked at and in each case “all we do is seek the explanation for what happens in the individual household and not see that it is a huge social issue”.

The detention by police of two mothers who lost children under tragic circumstances has been  criticized by the group Red Thread but the lawmen are adamant that they have their work to do. 

In an invited comment, Red Thread on Tuesday said that Bibi Rafzia Grovesnor who lost two children to a senna pod overdose and the pregnant Anita Ramdeo whose two children perished in a fire, were raising their offspring in conditions of extreme poverty and thus should not be criminalized but rather supported and counselled.

In the case of the fire which occurred last Saturday night, Stabroek News understands that Ramdeo was yesterday released on station bail.

In a telephone interview on Tuesday afternoon, Crime Chief Seelall Persaud said that it is a case whether there is a suspicion of homicide and if so whether the mother is a suspect.

He said in the case of the senna overdose case, the mother was released after the post-mortem examination had been completed and it was determined that it was not a homicide.

However he said it can still be a homicide since one could have intentionally given the children the senna pod and laxative “with intent to kill”. In the meantime the investigation into the incident remains open.

Persaud said in the case of the tragic fire, the mother left the children in the house and went out. He said when she was returning she saw the building on fire “but instead of raising an alarm, she ran to a house nearby and sat outside”.

He added that she has given a statement to the police. Asked if the woman should be detained in light of her pregnancy, the crime chief said that “pregnancy is not a defence for crime”.

He noted that an overseas-based woman who was charged with narcotics was pregnant and subsequently delivered her baby while incarcerated.

According to him, the only way the mother can be spared is if the area of detention can cause an infection to her unborn child but at the same time this will have to be determined by medical experts.

Further, Persaud told Stabroek News that if fathers are suspects they too will be detained as the ultimate goal of the investigators would be to determine if it is a case of homicide.

Observers have however noted that given the circumstances the women could have been placed on station bail until the investigation was concluded rather than having to spend traumatic days in the police lock-ups.

Last month Afiena Ramdeen, 5, and Aaliyah Ramdeen, 3, died within a day of each other after Grovesnor gave them senna pod tea followed by an anti-diarrheal tablet. Post-mortem results revealed that dehydration and an overdose of medication caused the deaths of the sisters.

Grovesnor, who was arrested shortly after the first child died, was released from police custody several days later without a charge being laid.

Then on Saturday last 3-year-old Ewan Munroe and his one-year-old brother Isaiah Munroe perished in a fire that engulfed the one-bedroom Hadfield Street shack they lived in with their parents.

Their mother Ramdeo according to reports had left the sleeping children in the home which was lit with a flambeau lamp and ventured to a nearby shop.

When the woman returned, the home was on fire and despite the efforts of residents the children could not be saved.

Criminalized

Andaiye, a member of the Red Thread women’s organization on Tuesday said that “the senna pod mother was picked up as if she was some kind of criminal’.

She pointed out that while it is the job of society to support and defend children, at the same time this cannot be done by criminalizing their mothers.

According to the Red Thread representative, both cases display a clear need for counselling as the women have lost young children, something they have to live with for the rest of their lives.

She said that they have already gone through ‘the horrors” of their children dying.

“We can see that she did not do it on purpose”, Andaiye said in commenting on the senna overdose case adding that the mother did it because she wanted what was best for them.

“It was out of ignorance. She has to live with the loss of her children. She needs help. She needs counselling and support. She and every mother like her needs that”, Andaiye stressed.

She said that the senna pod case clearly shows that there are lots of people out there who need information when it comes to medicating children.

In the case of the fire, she pointed out that it is true that adults should not go out and leave children but there are other issues such as poverty involved and which need urgent redress.

“We have to push for the defence and protection of children but not by criminalizing mothers especially those mothers who are attempting to care for children under conditions of extreme poverty”.

She added that those persons who live in circumstances where they can employ other women to care for their children should not be unsympathetic to those who care for their own without support.

According to Andaiye, these two situations represent a need for issues to be solved at the level of the society, the household and then the individual.

“Red Thread would never deny that there are some women in the world who neglect their children for no good reason but the majority want to do well by their children”, she added.

She said that there are huge societal issues that are not being looked at and in each case “all we do is seek the explanation for what happens in the individual household and not see that it is a huge social issue”.