…though clean-up of site okayed
Fire Chief (ag) Marlon Gentle yesterday declined to comment on the investigations into the blaze that devastated the Ministry of Health on Friday last even as questions persist about the extent of the fire service probe.
The Fire Chief who had been unavailable for comment since the blaze despite numerous efforts by this newspaper spoke through his secretary saying that he had “no comment”.
Deputy Fire Chief Winston McGregor had indicated on Monday that as far as he was aware investigations were continuing, but he had pointed out that no daily brief on the fire had reached him at that time.
From all indications the fire service has wrapped up investigations on the ground since according to Health Minister Dr Leslie Ramsammy his ministry has been cleared to proceed with the clean-up, and a fair proportion of the debris at the site has already been removed.
“We got permission from the fire service and the police to go ahead and clean up,” Ramsammy told Stabroek News yesterday.
Ramsammy was unable to say specifically what external help has been offered to the government in the fire probe, but Cabinet Secretary Dr Roger Luncheon told reporters yesterday that the US Southern Command has offered to provide fire-fighting investigative skills to the administration to further investigate the fire.
However, Ramsammy disclosed that he has received calls from persons offering assistance and that he is weighing the options.
“There are people with experience in many international settings where buildings have been destroyed because of terrorism, people who have developed some expertise in this area. This kind of help has been offered to us at the ministry,” Ramsammy said.
Ramsammy also had no information on the status of the police investigation. He said that developments in the probe are not forwarded to him directly, adding that he only read of the reported detention and beating of a man in connection with the fire when the story went public.
Luncheon addressed the reports surrounding the man, Troy Small, who has alleged that he was tortured at the hands of a group including one uniformed rank of the Guyana Defence Force. He revealed yesterday at his post-Cabinet press briefing that the matter was raised at an emergency meeting while noting that the police have denied any involvement in the beating.
“We were assured that a report will be provided as to the allegations and findings. I await the results of the report,” Luncheon said.
The Cabinet Secretary said too that the final investigative report from the police is incomplete, adding that there is no guarantee from the police as to when the report would be available. He said also that the administration is not in the habit of forcing the police to agree to any timeframe.
Further, Luncheon said that Cabinet has noted the ministry’s losses to arson. Since the blaze Cabinet has received reports about its impact and also reports on the contingency plans put in place.
Suffering
City resident Troy Small has alleged that he was questioned about the ministry fire and tortured by a group of men including one uniformed GDF rank early Monday morning, and was later deposited at the Alberttown Police Station.
Relatives of Small said yesterday that he is in poor health and “suffering a lot” but is afraid to be admitted to the public hospital. Small, who maintains that he has no knowledge of the attack on the ministry, opted to speak through an aunt when contacted by Stabroek News yesterday.
The fearful aunt related that the increased public attention in the matter has the family unsettled because “we don’t know who do this to he and whether they will come back”.
She said that Small was at home in tremendous pain but was against going to the public hospital where he was treated on Wednesday and later whisked away by the police. He was later released.
Asked about his condition she said that Small’s legs have been broken and he is suffering from chest pains.
According to the aunt, he is unable to do anything for himself and that they are assisting him at home. She said that he is desirous of going to a private hospital but is still unsure “at this time”.
Small’s story is that he was picked up by the group while in the company of a friend and taken to Le Repentir Cemetery where he was beaten mercilessly. He related that the men had guns and that they had even threatened to shoot him after he failed to answer questions about the fire.
His aunt would not elaborate on the story except to say that her nephew fears for his life now and that the family also feels at risk.
Keep on asking the Fire Chief, SN. If the one genuine expert in this case can’t or won’t speak, then who can be trusted?
Fire investigation is one of the most difficult of the forensic sciences to practice. During a fire investigation, an entire process must be undertaken just to determine if the case involves arson or not. The difficulty of determining whether arson has occurred arises because fire often destroys the key evidence of its origin.However, channa bombs were found in this disaster.
A fire investigator looks at the fire remains, and obtains information to reconstruct the sequence of events leading up to the fire.
One of the challenging aspects of fire investigation is the multi-disciplinary basis of the investigator’s job. Fires can be caused by or involve many common artifacts. So fire investigators need to know not only basic science of fire behavior, but knowledge of many different areas of study (including construction, electricity, human behavior, vehicles etc) is helpful. If there is a gas appliance at the origin of the fire, an investigator should know enough about appliances to either include or exclude it as a possible cause of the fire. Fire investigators must also know their own limitations and call upon other experts to assist when needed. Accordingly, fire investigators sometimes work with forensic electrical engineers (when examining electrical appliances, wiring, etc.) or others skilled in forensic engineering (gas-powered appliances, air handling equipment, gas delivery systems, etc.).
Fire investigators conduct their investigations using a systematic approach. There are five components that create a methodology with which fires are investigated using a systematic approach:
-The assignment is received and the investigator is notified of his responsibilities
-The investigator plans the investigation and assembles tools, equipment, and personnel
-The scene is examined and data is collected
-Physical evidence is collected, documented, tested, and evaluated.
-The scientific method is used to analyze the information obtained.
Fire investigators conduct their investigations to determine both what and who are involved.
Hence, this monstrous disaster needs the deployment of a team of independent, experienced, fire investigation experts. It’s not a good idea at all to have any local experts do this by themselves, given the nature of Guyanese society. For one, there would be questions of the credibility of the findings and accusations of prejudice. It would be extremely difficult if not impossible to take remedial actions based on the outcome of the findings.
social ’scientist’, at least acknowledge that you pinched most of this from Wikipedia, like a true scientist who acknowledges his sources.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_investigation
investigations continuing and at the same time BK removing the rubbles.
what will South Com and the others investigate if they already cleared the site?
The police and fire services are yet to pronounce on the fire, investigations are continuing, but Ramsammy already know is ‘domestic terrorism’.
all the talk about investigations, and no one saying how is it possible to throw channa bomb to the top floor, and how is it they found unlit bombs in a locked room. SN can please publich some recent photos of the building showing the different angles.
Ramsammy and the govt seems to be in a haste to pin the blame on something
where was the locked room, i read in the compound.
the only evidence one can find in a burn building is the origin and substance used.
if that is collected along with photos then they can do the clean up.
what is so wrong with that?
There is a state of fear and panic among the people as they are pitted against each other with the hefty reward dangling at the end. Out of the ashes will arise one who would be blamed for the arson. Guilty or innocent someone will pay for this. This is such a JOKE – calling in the experts looooong after the crime scene has been tampered/trampled on by all and sundry!!!!!
Dem who set Fiya wokin like dem credentials is CIA. Nice one, beat up a man and let one of the attacker wear a GDF uniform, ask something about fiya so he gon tell SN and others. The story then becomes…GDF beats man in connection with MoH fiya. Mission accomplished!…The GDF, police and Government now have to answer questions about the supposed beating rather than to push their investigation of the fiya; by the time they have clear things up about the beating, MoH fiya will be old news. And even if they have hard evidence about the arsonists at that time, many will not take their word without skepticism.
Of course you will be on mute, because you know what really happened there but you cannot say it.
Sounds like you know more than the fire cheif…
I don’t know what more to say, but this is lame how can an investigation take place when the site compromised, according to the article they were given the ok to clear the site how dumb is that, what can be determined by these outside help they are talking about, i wish them good luck, we are still waiting from the jamaicans on the dna report on the lindo killing, as for the torturing of troy smalls it shows how the gpf and gdf are taking advantage of the citizen, a man is innocent until proven guilty, but in guyana you are guilty until proven innocent, what a great democracy guyana has become.
Way to go Amen-ra, I agree with you 100% check this out the DNA results that they awaiting on will show up on the 12th of NEVER, thats our country and the way that is is being ruled and ruined. What a shame? I guess our Sweet Land will continue to spiral out of control.
PEACE OUTTTTTTTTTTT
In the great land of the Free and the great democracy where you currently reside many a black men are arrested,tried and in some cases they go to the gallows pleading their innocence. These men are presumed guilty until proven innocent.just ask Barry Scheck of the Innocence Project and he will tell ya,so you are being a hypocrite lambasting Guyana whilst you lay silent in comfort in the great democracy, right under your nose Uncle Sam is doing exactly what you are accusing Guyana of because you “eye pass” Guyana and is trying to throw sand in readers eyes,well Amenrah( is that an acronymn for Amena Rahaman?)this is one observer that read your rants and biases evert day and just have to smile as you could not have dare done this in the Kabaka’s days,yet you call the PPP government a dictatorship…. maybe you should really look deep and understand what the word really mean before you loosely and frivolously use it amen…..
“Questions persist” and “From all indications”. Folks, here we have a classic yellow journalism practice of giving the impression that the paper has substantive support from serious investigative quarters to back up the so called article’s slant. However, none is given because there is none. If the Fire Chief declined comment, why try to cobble together a story where there is none ? Answer: In the absence of anther dog story today, to try and tillitate morbid desires of National Inquirer types about disasters and sell more papers.
As in other countries, the Guyanese authorities have a job to do and no amount of media pressure and speculative attempts to suggest a cover up will stop them from doing their job effectively.
The tack on copy at the end on the city resident in hospital is stale and padding wasting space…
Never Ready,your remarks reflect the same type of thinking and excuses that Richard Nixon presented at the time of the Watergate break in and cover up. SN must explore every angle of this story.
You may be right in what you say, Reddy but you must understand SN is a commercial operation and they have to sell their products.
The dog story yesterday garnered 87 comments.
The Japanese engineers helping with flood defence story got 1 comment.
I hope you see where SN’s customers’ interests lie. They must sell their products to survive.
I am of an opinion that SN makes a REAL HARD EFFORT in maintaining balance and pragmatism.
Hey Reddy, this reminds me of Shirley’s cremation…
In the public eye, the evidence of wrong doing in both instances have been conveinently removed….so there can be no definitive answer…questions continue to persist over the cause of the fire just like the other government ministries and offices that went the same way under the PPP since it came to power in 1992.
Oh! to the joker who wrote a letter about using a shredder to destroy paper evidence ….he should learn that the shredded pieces of paper still had to be removed from the scene, so what better than a fire?
Red rover you hew and cry all day long the media biased the media this the media that.
Would it not be easier if you fools can for once just do the right thing? stop complaining about your critics and try and eliminate criticisms by doing something for a change and not only doing something but for god sakes do it right for a change.
Why is this government that constantly complains about C.I.A. involvement in its denial of governance of Guyana, now seeking assistance from another arm of the same U.S. government? What a bunch of hypocrites.
How did the GDF get involved in this? Are officer elements in the GDF the torturing squad for the government? And who were the other persons with the GDF rank? Was this a joint operation?
It is stated that one person wore a GDF uniform. Does that mean he’s a real GDF member? Did he show the alleged victim his military ID? How do we know that these people who supposedly picked up Small aren’t involved with the same group that set fire to MOH? Could this be a deliberate act to further stray the public from truth? Is this also an act to frame the GDF, police and Government?
Rodrick,
You must always apply that same temperance and reasoning. But then again that is only for the PPP/government and their supporters right?
The family should take the young man to the hospital regardless. If he has broken bones he needs professional care. He may be having broken ribs as well and this is dangerous to his health. They would have to keep vigil at his bed side .
Where is the voice of Human rights association? This is a criminal act and a violation of human rights and dignity.
NOTE : there is only suspicion and possibly accusations> Who is the judge and jury in Guyana?
This is lawlessness and those in authority including Henry Green , Rohee and the government must answer questions.
Jagdeo demanding rights and dignity for those who ar e breaking Bajan law. What happen to rights and dignity at home?
The Fire Chief unavailable for comment and speaks to SN through his secretary.
City resident Troy Small unavailable for comment and speaks to SN through his aunt.
Seems like many people do not want the truth to come out….
What a waste of time!
We all know who the BIG ONES are in this matter and THEY CANNOT BE TOUCHED.
Troy scared for his life. What the Fire chief scared about?
Satish, this Troy Small episode is particularly troubling.
I was hoping to learn of his innocence but the article ended and I was left hanging.
Who knows what scare tactics were used at his apparent torture, but with broken legs I would be raising hell from the roof tops if I was not involved man…………pure cock and bull, that’s all I can say at this time.
Satish!The fire chief cannot comment on a case where the investigation is not complete and depending on the questions SN might be asking the man has decided to be cautious and decline to give out any information that would be turned and twisted in the media.If Troy Small’s legs are broken why SN did not publish a photograph of him like they did of the man who is accussed of humping a dog and is not yet found guilty?And why did Small spoke through his aunt?after all it’s his legs they say are broken not his mouth.P.S the police and the fire service said that they are not finished “investigating”,they never said that they have not gather the evidence they needed and that explains the go ahead to clean up.
Fire chief scared he says the wrong thing and jagdeo throws a fit.
There is some concern that the delay in start of the international probe and the current cleanup may influence the outcome of the probe.Why cleanup when it is apparent that we do not have the investigative skills on site? Why not involve the international investigators every step as the cleanup proceeds rather than after the cleanup? The investigators should have been on site from day one of the cleanup process! What are we attempting to hide by cleaning up before the probe?
Indian, the answers to your questions are quite simple my friend.
(A) Ask for international help so it looks as if you are serious about getting the truth out of this.
(B) Bar the fire chief from giving press statements, that way he may not slip up and talk too much.
(C) Start the clean up process, so when the “foreign help” arrives they will declare their findings to be inconclusive because the site was compromised.
Now if the above is played out skillfully, you would be praised for leaving no stone unturned in this case, your support base will be well pleased that you are beating the “enemy” on all fronts, election will come, election will go, and it will be business as usual.