The problem in Guyana lies with the existence of ethnic parties which are committed to ethnic voting

BY Staff
Published: November 18, 2008 in Letters

Dear Editor,
I refer to Mr Hamley Case’s letter ‘Inspired by Obama Guyanese should seize the day’ (SN 15.11.08) dealing with the lessons learned from the American elections and applying them to solve Guyana’s political problems.
The lessons from Obama’s election victory are simple.

(1) He never appealed to race to win votes. He ran mainly an issues-based campaign.
(2) The overwhelming majority of approximstely 115 million voters decided they wanted “change,” as in change from the Republican to the Democratic party. (They were tired of the Bush war; deregulation (responsible for the financial meltdown); lack of an energy policy; need for universal health care, etc.)

(3) The great fear was that the majority of the American voters would not be able to overcome their racial prejudices and vote for an African-American candidate. But they did with flying colours. This process was helped immensely by the brilliance of candidate Obama himself – always calm and cool as a cucumber; always right on the issues; always presenting the arguments in a non-threatening way; always appearing confident and knowledgeable, etc.
This election was a show-case of democracy in action − a model exercise in campaigns, voting behaviour, voting on issues, not race, etc.
Mr Case railed against the Westminster model constitution – ‘winner takes all.’ It is exactly the same principle in the US constitution. What’s wrong with the constitution of Guyana? And how has the American election exposed any fault in the constitution of Guyana, or the free and fair elections we have been having in Guyana since 1992?

Mr Case called for shared governance. Does Obama’s election demonstrate the need for shared governance in America or Guyana? Doesn’t shared governance in itself negate the meaning of democracy? (If Obama picks or retains one or two Republicans in his cabinet - as Bill Clinton did, it is because he wants to forge bipartisanship to aid the passage of crucial legislation in the Congress, but this is not shared governance).

Now I concede there is a big problem in Guyana. It is called ethnic parties and ethnic voting in a country that has two almost equally large ethnic groups. The Indian group has a slight numerical majority, and given the culture of ethnic voting the Indian-ethnic party won the last four elections, and they will continue to win for the next 100 years. The African-Guyanese justly feel excluded from political power. And they are seething with rage. A whole school of thought (led by Dr David Hinds, among others) has given birth to and is agitating for shared governance.

This is a genuine and grave problem. As a Guyanese I am deeply concerned about this problem. So how do we fix this problem?
The recently concluded American election does teach a valuable lesson that can and must be applied to Guyana. End ethnic parties and free-up the political atmosphere so that people will not be constrained to vote for ethnic parties, but rather be emboldened to vote on issues. Mr Case called for constitutional changes. The only change I will propose that has merit is that the victorious party’s mandate must consist of at least 20 per cent cross-racial support. But this is better dealt with by adopting it as an unwritten rule, and letting the burden rest on the parties themselves to achieve such a bi-racial mandate.

Let me conclude by saying that there is nothing genetic about voting race; it is not coded in the DNA of the Guyanese people, and they, like the American people, will also vote on issues once the ethnic parties are put out of business.

For the sake of Messrs Hamley Case, David Hinds, Ogunseye and the out-of-power Afro-ethnic PNC, I would like to see the PNC win the next election scheduled for 2011. We need genuine multiracial democracy to evolve in Guyana. And, the true test of democracy is that the baton of power must pass from one party to another every few election cycles. Indeed, no party can command majority support forever. There are so many unhappy Indians in Guyana, disenchanted with the ruling Indian-ethnic PPP that they will gladly vote for any reasonable alternative. Indeed, like the American people, they will easily overcome their racial prejudices, and vote on issues − but there has to be a reasonable alternative. The PNC continues to have a life-and-death hold on the principle that the PNC can only be led by an African and is seen as catering to the needs of Africans only. And, the PNC still has to deal with the burden of its past – its 28-year dictatorial rule and oppression of the Guyanese people and the destruction of the economy. As Shakespeare might say, the fault, dear Brutus, lies with the existence of ethnic parties which encourage and reinforce and are forever committed to the idea of ethnic voting.
Yours faithfully,
Mike Persaud

Comments

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44 Comments

R Mudratt says:

November 18, 2008 at 8:50 am

Mr Singh has made some very salient points. Guyanaese have to take their destiny into their own hands and resist voting in future elections on racial grounds. There needs to be a renaissance in thinking if the country is to move forward both politically and economically. There is now a need for a radical departure from the politics of old and I would venture to say that this requires a new breed of politicians who will be more concerned with nation building rather than self enrichment. That is why we need someone of the stature of ret’d Major General Joe Singh to get into the political arena and contest the next general election. Only then will we see real change in this nation’s fortunes and a commitment to genuine nation building.

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- Alvin Rutherford says:
  
  November 21, 2008 at 1:39 pm
  
  It is extremely disheartening to realize the contributions Guyanese are making abroad to the expense of Guyana, by simply just migrating. I doubt whether Guyanese would ever vote against ethnic cleavage for sure not in my lifetime. I think what most Guyanese desire is that they have a stake in the political future of the country by making a positive contribution without any political abridgements. It does not matter to me who rule Guyana, as much as having a stake in the country. I do not want to be alienated in my country. If that were to be the case it is best to live abroad. The American society is not rigid it is flexible. I doubt one can describe Guyana as such. This does not mean that racial problems do not exist, but people are willing to take chances regardless of race that is why Obama won the elections. Guaynese are stuck in the mire of race, which obscure their vision in seeing ones ability. I work in the US, and people promote ones exceptional ability. They see you for your contributions, and not the color of your skin. This is the opposite in Guyana. We have a long way to go in Guyana, and i am not positive of the future for the country.
Ulric says:

November 18, 2008 at 10:32 am

The recently concluded American election has taught Guyanese nothing other than people voted for change. How do you Mr. Singh propose that with entrenched racism in Guyana we learn from the recent election in America and apply the governing principles of that election(CHANGE) to Guyanese political thought? Are you serious, vote on issues? Your letter’s major premise is that there is ethnic voting , which you say the governing party PPP will win for the next 100 years, Are you suggesting that these voters will suddenly awake from their racial slumber,wipe the boo-boo from their eyes and see Corbin or any other Afro-Guyanese leader as a change agent? I say not. For Guyanese to discontinue their racial voting pattern, Chedie and Forbes will have to fight a celestial war and, irrespective of who becomes the victor, that person will have the power to wipe the memories of all voting age citizens who support either party. What will Forbes do? Will he wipe the memories of only PPP supporters and why? or will he wipe the memories of only PNC supporters and why? or will he wipe the memories of supporters of both major parties and why? The same applies to Cheddie. Now bloggers go to work. Be very serious and creative with your answers. Mr. Singh read and learn from your fellow Guyanese. ISNM

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- Kaieteur Gold says:
  
  November 18, 2008 at 12:42 pm
  
  Hi “Ulric” you refer to “Mike Persaud’s” statement in his Letter To The Editor; and, I believe that this was a “post” from yesterday) that “[...The Indian group has a slight numerical majority, and given the culture of ethnic voting the Indian-ethnic party won the last four elections, and they will continue to win for the next 100 years...] History will show both Afro and Indo Guyanese made up the composition of the PPP and that the formation of the PNC was as the result of a falling-out between the late Cheddie Jagan and L. F. S. Burnham follow the suspension of the then PPP Government and Constitution by the British Government; and, during a period in which L. F. S. Burnham was jailed. If precedence is to be any judge then the defeat of the PPP at the 1964 polls (a merger between the PNC and the UF) in the then General Elections ought to serve as a reminder as to how things can result in Guyana with the elections in Guyana in 1992 being no different than that of 1964.
MACK says:

November 18, 2008 at 11:20 am

There is a party (AFC), which has members from the two major party, and represent areas where both parties are strongly represented. Both leaders are very smart and seasoned politicians, but Guyanese decided to pass the opportunity for change and go for the status quo. Guyanese need a real education on political issues if they are going to change their voting habits. Both the PNC and PPP have failed ti develop Guyana to it’s full potential over the past 40 years, yet rather than trying something different, they stick to the same old stuff, but expect change. It’s not going to happen unless we change our thinking.

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- speedy says:
  
  November 18, 2008 at 4:03 pm
  
  I’ll tell you why the present leadership of the AFC is doomed to failure! Both Raphael Trotman and Khemraj Ramjattan are associated in a very primary way with the root of our problem. They were once senior members of the PPP and the PNC. Because of this they have neutralised their effectiveness to attract a constituency outside of that of their old politiucal ‘homes.” Why you may ask. Because the average Guyansese of African descent will not trust Ramjattan and the average Guyanese of East Indian descent will not trust Trotman. That is how unsophisticated…..the average Guyanese voter is. Until we educate our people to think for themselves we shall continue destroying the country.
Ginger56 says:

November 18, 2008 at 11:38 am

Yes, I agreed with Mr. Persaud, that Guyanese have been voting ethnically and continue to do. Now would Guyanese learn from the American elections, some may, but the majority will not. Why? Because of their nature, “Skin for Skin” they will not go against their nature even if it’s for their own good. So it matters not that the truth is staring them in the face, they will always see situations through their mind’s eye and apply that to everything that they do. “Skin for Skin.”

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Kaieteur Gold says:

November 18, 2008 at 11:55 am

Re: “[...That is why we need someone of the stature of ret’d Major General Joe Singh to get into the political arena and contest the next general election. Only then will we see real change in this nation’s fortunes and a commitment to genuine nation building...]” My thinking is that someone from the Luckhoo Dynasty (with the relevant legal background unlike that of a military like that of “ret’d Major General Joe Singh and Senator Jonh McCain) will be Guyana’s best bet for an Obama-like candidate for next General Elections. It will be like a “been there, done that” scenario more or less.

http://www.genealogymagazine.com/luckhoo.html

With voting on the “issues” and not “race”!

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Richard Lewis says:

November 18, 2008 at 2:32 pm

Change the electoral system from voting for a party to voting for area representatives and let the party that elects the most representatives be the party in power. In this way Guyana may benefit from minority governments which would have no choice but to be seen as representing all factions (races, clans, regions etc). Look at the Canadian electoral system for a Guyana solution. IT WILL WORK, but may require a constitutional change. The powers that be will have to deal with this in parliament, and my bet is that the party that stands to loose the most (the party in power) will defintely not wish to champion such a change.

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Kaieteur Gold says:

November 18, 2008 at 2:41 pm

Mike Persaud in this Letter To The Editor talks about “For the sake of Messrs Hamley Case, David Hinds, Ogunseye and the out-of-power Afro-ethnic PNC, I would like to see the PNC win the next election scheduled for 2011. We need genuine multiracial democracy to evolve in Guyana. And, the true test of democracy is that the baton of power must pass from one party to another every few election cycles” when the the Canadians (hopefully) will be in control of the “OIL” production in Guyana, the Chinese and the Russians in control of Bauxite Industries and the Malaysians in control of the forestry resources, the Brazilians in control of the gold and diamonds with the Guyanese nationals pushing illegal drugs into North America and elsewhere. This is indeed some kind of perpetual political strategy for Guyana Mike Persaud is talking about - huh!

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speedy says:

November 18, 2008 at 4:08 pm

The major difference between President -Elect Obama and the persons we have had seeking the Presidency in Guyana recently is not one of race, ethnicity or even issues. It is simply one of values and a profound understanding of what it entails to run a country in the 21st century. I am not sure that our present and potential leaders satisfy either of these two conditions.

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- Kaieteur Gold says:
  
  November 18, 2008 at 9:48 pm
  
  Hey “speedy; Re: “The major difference between President -Elect Obama and the persons we have had seeking the Presidency in Guyana recently is not one of race, ethnicity or even issues. It is simply one of values and a profound understanding of what it entails to run a country in the 21st century. I am not sure that our present and potential leaders satisfy either of these two conditions….”
  
  How about letting the world know how many “Bank Managers” around the world change their “JOBS/ROLES” whenever there is a change in government in a particular country; and, these are the people that owns your house, your car, your credit cards and the student loan to pay for your children college education et cetera, et cetera….. Think carefully about who are the people (including those in the military….) who actually run a country.
- james says:
  
  November 19, 2008 at 5:25 pm
  
  u sure speedy? so why the americans start complaining already that Obama is fulling up his cabinet with Clintonites? Is that the change they wanted?
  
  No of the parties in guyana offer viable alternatives. People in guyana see the parties as one and the same the only difference is abee in control.
Johan says:

November 18, 2008 at 5:17 pm

To vote on issues, people need to be constantly reminded of what those issues are. How many Guyanese bother to inform themselves in this way? Further, how many Guyanese bother to get THE OTHER SIDE of an issue? Droves of my friends stopped reading the Stabroek News when it dared to question the Government. On the other hand, many of us consider SN the only paper worth reading. Same thing with theTV channels. Without balanced information, and the responsibility to seek that information for ourselves, we fall back on what we know, and what we know is race.

The two main parties will not change any of that. They have us right where they want us. WE have to take the responsibility to change things if we seriously want change. How? Vote AFC next elections. They may not win. But bet u PPP and PNC will come to their senses.

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barbadian says:

November 18, 2008 at 6:03 pm

I will like to know why indo guyanese are will to live under a pnc but will run from guyana and to Barbados and live here when we do’nt whan them here.

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r sdasai says:

November 18, 2008 at 6:12 pm

All You:
Good and insiteful comments,but a government is only as good as the willingness of the citizens of the country to support the government of the day as well as the government of the day is willing to treat all citizens equally. But who will ensure that citizens behave like robots and follow the mandate of a current government? There is racial and party voting in the USA, and compromises unlike in Guyana. These two systems are miles apart and a comparison does not reveal any merit to help Guyanese. Comment but do not bite off my head.

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- Kaieteur Gold says:
  
  November 18, 2008 at 11:38 pm
  
  Re: “There is racial and party voting in the USA, and compromises unlike in Guyana. These two systems are miles apart and a comparison does not reveal any merit to help Guyanese. Comment but do not bite off my head…. ” A few things that you will have to understand though is that the same aeroplanes that rely on jet fuel to fly to Guyana are the same ones that return to the United States of America with the Afro and Indo-Guyanese immigrant workers who in turn support their dependent families in Guyana (and elsewhere in Latin America and the Caribbean for that matter) through remittances. So, to put it quite simply - if the systems (political, financial, economic….) in the United States of America “sneeze” then those in Guyana (and elsewhere around the world) “catch colds” as it is with the current financial and economic crises and the Republican Party of the United States of America understood this very fact very well at the hands of the American voters earlier this month. And, it certainly would not be surprising if the voters at the next General Elections in Guyana follow suit.
Joe Coxall says:

November 18, 2008 at 6:24 pm

I have said this in many of my blog comments, racism burns deep in the minds and souls of us individuals, the political parties know this and they know that they can count on it come elections. So let us not blame the politicians anymore. It is we who hold the blame, and it took Obama to open our eyes. Thank god for that

Joe.

Reply
- james says:
  
  November 19, 2008 at 5:30 pm
  
  Obama did not open our eyes he open the white people eyes, because if Obama was the candaditate of the other party and was preaching a different message we will still vote for him. Why? because of race.
Madan Jagdeo says:

November 18, 2008 at 10:24 pm

Stop blaming the electorate…Guyanese are not stupid…the are at present voting for the lesser of the two evils…Mike has made a good call …change your
leadership….the fact that the two major races are so close in numbers should be a blessing for the people…the PNC should always be nice to Indo-guyanese and the PPP should always be nice to Afro-guyanese… and they both should be nice to the other races….however, the PNC in particular, just don’t get it…they continue to champion the rights of violent criminals who masquerade as freedom fighters…what freedom are they fighting for?…if under the PPP Govt this mayhem against primarily Indo-guyanese is taking place what can Indians expect from PNC rule…don’t forget also that for 28 years Guyanese were denied the right to vote…what guarantee do we have that if the PNC is voted into office it will not continue to rig elections?
These are the issues that need to be addressed…don’t blame the people …the people have indeed chosen wisely…withdraw support for the criminals …give them up regardless of ethnicity…let there be no safe havens…allow the people to mingle freely without fear…earn their trust..only then will they reward you with their vote

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8R-DAW says:

November 18, 2008 at 10:32 pm

You are right Joe. If we are to always vote for race, Guyana will be perpetually governed by the PPP. We have to vote for Guyana as Guyanese. If we vote for party, there will be no change. Guyana cannot be divided by the PPP and the PNC. As you said, Joe, only the people can change the outcome of voting. I am neither for or against the PPP or the PNC, I am in favour of a fair and just president and prime minister.

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Dust. says:

November 19, 2008 at 12:41 am

Yes, yes folks, this has always bothered me and at times put me in an embarrasing position with my friends from other countries. It is very hard for them to understand Guyana’s politics. So I always tell them our politics is not based on facts, progress, failures, issues and events, it’s based on race and longterm memory. It has nothing to do with now or the future. Guyana politics has to do with prior to 1992 and yesterday. Today you will hear everyone complaining and when election comes around everyone is quiet, afraid to speak their minds or the facts. We do not look at our selves as Guyanese, we see indian and black, while foreigners see us as Guyanese. So we can make all the educated comments and until we see ourselves as Guyanese we will remain as fools, dumb and stupid, as far as politics is concerned in the eyes of my foreign friends. Guess what? I do not blame them.

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- Kaieteur Gold says:
  
  November 19, 2008 at 2:31 am
  
  Hey “Dust”! With the Russians and the Chinese in control of the bauxite industries, the Brazilians and other foreign companies in control of gold and diamond mining activities, Suriname in control of the Corentyne River (it will appear from recent events; and, the Canadians soon to control the oil industry, with the Malaysians in control of the forestry sector - what political economy/political control in Guyana are you talking about???
Vishan says:

November 19, 2008 at 7:10 am

One must take into consideratins the main reasoing for voting along ethnic lines we must look at what the PNC did during the 70’s and early 80’s to PPP supporters, and the experinces of racism, that people continue to carry and experince, I am an INDO guyananese of the modern generation, i was taught by my elders not to like Afro- Guyanese i now live in st.lucia and my girlfreind is Black, and I now have to deal with the woman i love and the woman my famly may/will not accept, guyana will be ready for the change you in america, when one of my children or someon eslse children who might happpen to be bi-racial and thats another 2 decades from now,

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- Kaieteur Gold says:
  
  November 19, 2008 at 11:00 am
  
  Re: “[....I am an INDO Guyanese of the modern generation, i was taught by my elders not to like Afro- Guyanese i now live in St.Lucia and my girlfriend is Black, and I now have to deal with the woman i love and the woman my family may/will not accept, Guyana will be ready for the change you in America, when one of my children or someone else children who might happen to be bi-racial and thats another 2 decades from now,....]” You are behind the times “Vishan” with your thinking that Guyana will have to wait until one of your children (or someone else’s child - who might happen to be bi-racial to assume political leadership in Guyana similar in the way with respect to the recent U. S. General Elections where President-Elect Barack Obama (the off-spring of a mixed-race marriage) was victorious. Mixed-marriage between Afro-Guyanese and Indo-Guyanese started more than one hundred and fifty (150) years ago and that quality political leadership was demonstrated from February to March 1970; and, getting rid of the “Swimming Pool” does not eliminate the “Gene Pool”.
  
  Re:
  
  “Presidents of Guyana”
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Guyana
  
  http://www.genealogymagazine.com/luckhoo.html
brownboy14 says:

November 19, 2008 at 7:42 am

It is pleasing to observe civic minded Indo-Guyanese speak with a tone of righteous indignation on a perpetual SIN that continue to devour the SOUL and FABRIC of a NATIONHOOD, that has left us with a confluence of problems that no reconciliation can humanly repair.
What therefore is needed is the fierce urgent desire to move forward collectively each foregoing his/her atomistic principles of living and adopting the philosophy of the late President Kennedy,’ASK NOT WHAT GUYANA CAN DO FOR US, ASK WHAT WE CAN DO FOR GUYANA’. A noble thought which will cause many to struggle with their need to pay a fair share of taxes for earnings acquired by fair or foul means.
Afro-Guyanese will have to come to grip with the fact that their former & current leaders of the PNC have not instructed them in the correct way they should go, that when they depart they will not be like headless chickens. We must agree that during that period of unknowing the powers that be have ran a mock ever system by which we are served, and to complicate things some some of us as afro-Guyanese did not make things easy for ourselves neither, those who thought it was no longer to drink tea without milk, choose the benefits of here and now in preference to TRUTH, HONESTY, JUSTICE, & LONG TERM BENEFIT OF THE NATION. We have become like the 3 big motor vehicle makers whose self destructive behaviour is leading them to the point of possible extinction.
The old adage of what you sow will determine what we reap.
A choice of leadership must take a number of factors into consideration, as such any leadership of the PNCR or PPPC not willing to acknowledge the past deleterious behaviour of their respective party is a Failure from the start and not willing to Learn from Obama almost malediction of his party inherent failure(s). Secondly, we must recognize it was such action taken by Trotman and Ramjatan that has led to the birth of the AFC. Like Obama my understanding is that Raphael has continued to make repeated visits to constituents across the country, in spite of constraints of limited resources.
I therefore posit that a multiracial party with the leadership and commitment to hard work will be the best thing that can happen for change and the opportunity for all to become a real possibility.
GUYANESE LIKE AMERICANS MUST HUNGER FOR SUCH AND ONLY WHEN TRUE LIFE IS DESIRED, CAN SAME BE REACHED AT THE ALTITUDE IT EXIST.

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- Kaieteur Gold says:
  
  November 19, 2008 at 12:13 pm
  
  Re: “[....Afro-Guyanese will have to come to grip with the fact that their former & current leaders of the PNC have not instructed them in the correct way they should go, that when they depart they will not be like headless chickens....]” How about if you stop to think what your are writing and whether or not you appear to be a confused philosopher. Case in point - consider the current financial and economic woes in the United States of America, Guyana and the rest of the world and compare this to what the Founder Leader of the People’s National Congress in Guyana meant when he was hinting for Guyanese (and, we were recently reminded about this by the erudite “Joe Coxall” in one of his earlier post) for them to “tighten their belts”! And, if the PNC’s Leadership were so wrong in the establishment of the umbrella institution that was the “Co-operative Financial Institutions” in Guyana then can you care to explain to the world what the recently approved $700,000,000,000 U.S by the United States Government was for.
Richard Lewis says:

November 19, 2008 at 1:03 pm

After reading Vishan’s post and his assertion that he was taught by his elders to dislike Afro-Guyanese, I must now admit, like many others, that nothing will change specially when the country is turning out students from public schools, high schools and the university who cannot read (semi-literate).

This points to a plot to keep the populace illiterate so that they will learn only what they are told and not what they have been able to discover for themselves through the ability to read and analyse information generated by other than government sources.

Thank God in my household we were never taught to dislike anyone, but to judge everyone on their own merit.

As long as racial hatred persists in Guyana, regardless of what is done or who says what, nothing will change. They migh as well just divide the country into three parts, one for Indio-Guyanese, one for Afro-Guyanese and one for whichever of those two groups wish to live together (I guess that this third area will be devoid of people). Lol.

And Vishnu, please do not expose your girlfriend to your family’s hatred of blacks. If you care for her please do not take her to Guyana.

What a pity!!!

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GUYFLAG says:

November 19, 2008 at 10:18 pm

Brown boy it looks like I’m getting through to you, .. Bravo for your latest piece, continue in this vein and you will feel relief and freedom from the burden of hypocracy and “blindness’ that suffocates so many of our fellow contributors… the Truth will surely be the winner…

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- Kaieteur Gold says:
  
  November 20, 2008 at 12:31 am
  
  Hey “GUYFLAG”! Got to tell ya this - whatever kind of “Maple” syrup (like those French fries and Chinese milk formulas) you are using it may be a good thing if you restrict the use to those close to you. It is quite certain that most contributors here know only too well what a great teacher “HIS STORY” is; and, with the world’s financial and economic situation hemorrhaging as it is doing then waiting for the results for the President-elect Obama’s remedies may be just too late for some of the American home-owners and bank workers; therefore, it is all the more reason why the “Burnham Belt Tightening” and historical (Bush ERR Medicinal) remedy may serve as an excellent magic potion for most “contributors” rather than yours (and brownboy14’s) Hocus pocus “spiced Maple” syrup (like those French fries and Chinese baby milk formulas). :-D
GUYFLAG says:

November 19, 2008 at 10:49 pm

Let me warn however…. lets stop dreaming……… stop comparing Guy with the Greatest contry on the planet……., show me a “non- Western country’ in the world … that has chosen an Administration that is not representative of the majority race, or the majority tribe or in a few cases the majority Religion….. that is a natural human condition…in fact it is a natural animal condition.. …. the Kingdom to which we all belong… so why single out guyana… we are part of the human species…….. Also please enlighten me friends…….. what makes you think…… that Dr. Luncheon, messrs. Sam Hinds; Jeffry ; Dr. Westford ; Clinton Collymore; etc. are less concerned about the welfare of Black Guyanese, than Messrs. Corbin; Alexander; Case ;et al.. ? So rest the race issue … and lets ask the question or answer the quote from Brown Boys submission…. what coud we do….

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- Kaieteur Gold says:
  
  November 20, 2008 at 12:10 pm
  
  Re: “[….Also please enlighten me friends…….. what makes you think…… that Dr. Luncheon, messrs. Sam Hinds; Jeffry ; Dr. Westford ; Clinton Collymore; etc. are less concerned about the welfare of Black Guyanese, than Messrs. Corbin; Alexander; Case ;et al.. ? So rest the race issue … and lets ask the question or answer the quote from Brown Boys submission…. what coud we do…}” Putting this in the context of the days of “DEMBA” and “ALCAN” ask yourself what are you doing in Canada when you should be in either Russia or China? And, that’s is one of the first things that make no sense of the names that you have referenced.
GUYFLAG says:

November 20, 2008 at 7:16 pm

don’t know where youre coming from , but makes no sense to me,, .i made specific references and posed specific questions, you have to do much better , If you intend to challenge me in Debate, my friend….

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Caesar Agustus says:

November 20, 2008 at 9:19 pm

This happens not only in Guyana, but in many parts of the world. Even in the US.

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Joe Coxall says:

November 18, 2008 at 6:17 pm

Kaieteur Gold,
I was told that during that tumultous period when Fordes and Cheddi and other party members were fighting againt British rule, all of the boys were thrown into the slammer, for some reason Forbes was never present when it came to jail time and so never went to prison.

If there is anyone who knows the story to the contrary, please feel free to correct me.

Joe.

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Kaieteur Gold says:

November 18, 2008 at 11:10 pm

Hi Uncle Joe, you commented among other things; re: “[….I was told that during that tumultous period when Fordes and Cheddi and other party members were fighting againt British rule, all of the boys were thrown into the slammer, for some reason Forbes was never present when it came to jail time and so never went to prison….} In actual fact if one should wish talk about the revolutionary struggles in Guyana against the colonial masters then really we have to refer to ancestors such as Cuffy, Accra, Damon Quamina…. and thank goodness for America for the period 1939 - 1945; or, you and your family may not have been around at this time or you all would have been speaking German.

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Chuck Mohan says:

November 19, 2008 at 12:05 am

Joe,

You are correct, Forbes NEVER went to jail.

Kaiteur Gold,

Could you explain to me how the 1964 and 1992 were the same. Let me just say this:

1992
1. The CIA did not install the PPP in office.
2. Dr. Jagan and the PPP won a free and fair election. { the first free and fair election in Guyana’s history}.
3. Dr. Jagan was not a puppet of the CIA and the British.

I just wanted to mention those three points. I await your response and then I will continue to set the record straight.

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Kaieteur Gold says:

November 19, 2008 at 2:15 am

Geez “Chuck Mohan”! - Why do you wish for someone to explain that the PPP went to the pools at General Elections held in Guyana as the PPP/C (C for Civic) which was followed similarly with PNC-R (R for Reform). Secondly, so what if the CIA and the British Military installed the PNC and the United Force (UF) in Office in 1964 when Cheddie Jagan himself declared himself a Moscow Puppet. And, in any case at that time British Guiana as the country was named at that time was just considered a pawn of the major players who were the United States of America and Russia mainly with the Chinese approach to Communism to a certain extent. You can bet the farm that if the USSR did not all but collapse pressure would not have been placed on Desmond (Persaud) Hoyte to give up the overseas voting…. and, normal and naturally thinking individuals would accept that there were free and fair elections in Guyana when the “computers” and overseas voting for Guyanese nationals living abroad are introduced/re-introduced and there are no complaints about registering in Demerara and being sent to Berbice or Essequibo to vote on the day of General Elections.

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Kaieteur Gold says:

November 19, 2008 at 2:45 am

Correction: “went to the polls” instead of “went to the pools”. Thanks.

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speedy says:

November 19, 2008 at 9:52 am

Of course there is the technical dimension to running the processes of production, governance, etc…However, all of these are ultimately subject to the philosophy, vision and “real” power which the leader of a country possesses. In the absence of these a leader will be a “lameduck” as Bush has become . On the other hand, when in possession of these elements, a leader can be highly effective and successful in leading his/her country into new and progressive directions, like Clinton did during his term as president. Running a country is not a technical matter. It has to do more with vision, philosophy and personal integrity!!!!

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Kaieteur Gold says:

November 19, 2008 at 2:45 pm

“speedy” you have said inter alia “[...Of course there is the technical dimension to running the processes of production, governance, etc…However, all of these are ultimately subject to the philosophy, vision and “real” power which the leader of a country possesses. In the absence of these a leader will be a “lameduck” as Bush has become . On the other hand, when in possession of these elements, a leader can be highly effective and successful in leading his/her country into new and progressive directions...]” Since it it believed that no man on the God’s Greening Earth can possess all the faculties that are being talked about to enable him/her to effectively run a country… it is for these reasons that in industry we have what is called a division of labor. And, you can bet the farm that if one the most powerful Presidents (by certain standards) of the United States of America was not perceived by certain minds like the way they think he is then all would have been reading and talking about President-Elect John McCain instead of President-Elect Barack Obama. After all, even the Most High had/have “Bands of Angels” working on his behalf and we get the dependency/collective responsibility drift.

Have you ever ask yourself if the proposed Upper-Mazaruni Electricity Project by the L. F. S. Burnham Administration was reported to be financially, economically and technically feasible and by whom; and, what the financial and housing markets in the United States of America and the financial markets in the rest of the world did not get right?

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brownboy14 says:

November 20, 2008 at 5:20 am

Kindly read the rebuke and consistent advice Obama had given to Black Americans throughout his campaign, even Bill Cosby. But like Rev Jackson you are oblivious to the fabric of the spiritual realm, unable to differentiate between cause and effects. The leading indicators lies in the spiritual real, the lagging indicators lies in the social and economic ills.

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Kaieteur Gold says:

November 20, 2008 at 11:15 am

Re: “Kindly read the rebuke and consistent advice Obama had given to Black Americans throughout his campaign, even Bill Cosby. But like Rev Jackson you are oblivious to the fabric of the spiritual realm, unable to differentiate between cause and effects. The leading indicators lies in the spiritual real, the lagging indicators lies in the social and economic ills.” Since “His Story” is so replete with information going all the way back to the days of the great Kings and Queens of Egypt…. http://www.eyelid.co.uk/k-q-menu.htm what ever gave you the impression “Black Americans” would have waited all this long for someone like President-elect Barack Obama to offer “advice” when they were persons such as Frederick Douglass (”Douglass is one of the most prominent figures in African-American history and United States history. In 1872, Douglass became the very first African-American nominated as a Vice Presidential candidate in the U.S., running on the Equal Rights Party ticket with Victoria Woodhull, the first woman to run for President of the United States” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Douglass ) among many others who have blazed the social, political and economic trails before President-elect Barack Obama.

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speedy says:

November 30, 2008 at 7:03 am

a leader who can convince all guyanese to see the light has to emerge before Gt people can “follow suit!” when that leader does emerge , then we shall be on our way.

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