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Emotions run high as …Lindo families give DNA

By Oluatoyin Alleyene.

Relative: ‘It is not Fineman, Fineman is a figment of their very small thinking’

Emotions ran high yesterday when relatives of those killed at Lindo Creek visited the Criminal Investigation Department (CID), Eve Leary to provide DNA samples in the hope that they match burnt remains found at the mining camp in June.

There was wailing, silent tears and angry outbursts as relatives of seven of those killed found themselves together for the first time. No relative of Bonny Harry, who was the manager of the camp, was present.

Hair and saliva samples were taken from the relatives, who included the nine-year-old son of Compton Speirs, Orin. The samples were taken by members of the Jamaican investigative team which arrived in the country last Friday. The investigators are expected to also obtain samples from the burnt remains which were taken from the storage place at Lyken Funeral Home at around midday yesterday and carried to the Georgetown Public Hospital (GPHC).

While most of the relatives expressed some amount of satisfaction that they may now have something of their loved ones to bury they indicated that the burning question on their minds is who killed the men. The relatives said that is the most important question that needed to be answered to ensure that justice prevails for the eight miners who were brutally killed.

And at least one relative, the mother of 17-year-old Nigel Torres, Yonette Torres, told Stabroek News that she would not be collecting any remains to claim as her son’s. The woman, who wailed uncontrollably when she entered the CID building said she could never be sure that what is given to her indeed belonged to her son.

While mining owner Leonard Arokium, who lost his son and brother in the tragedy, did not visit the CID as he said he was not well, his sister and son visited to have samples taken for his brother, Cedric Arokium and son, Dax, respectively. The sister, Lorna Arokium, said it was a very difficult process as it is the closest she will ever come to receiving the remains of her brother. She said on Monday night she was unable to sleep as she was very nervous. The woman called out for justice and said she hopes that whoever committed the heinous act will eventually be placed behind bars.

‘Small thinking’

As Compton Speirs’ son left CID headquarters yesterday he was surrounded by several relatives who were very outspoken in calling on Acting Commissioner of Police Henry Greene to tell all he knows.
A sister of the man, Patricia Hutson Esquire, called on Greene to stop covering up for “his forces.” She said he speaks “arbitrary”. “But I am not afraid”, she said, stating her view that it was the Joint Services who “killed my brother and the others” and that the police know it. “It is not Fineman (Rondell Rawlins), Fineman is a figment of their very small thinking,” the woman said.

The police have said that ballistics tests on the spent shells discovered at the scene matched one of the weapons that was recovered by the security forces from Cecil Ramcharran called ‘Uncle Willie’ and Robin Chung called ‘Chung Boy’ who were slain at Goat Farm during a confrontation with lawmen. The two men have been linked to the Rondell `Fineman’ Rawlins gang.

Police had said they encountered `Fineman’ and his gang during a confrontation at Christmas Falls on June 6. They said that one of the gunmen was killed while six others managed to escape. The eight miners were believed to have been murdered sometime after this date.

Speirs’ sister has now expressed a view similar to what Leonard Arokium had declared following the June 21 discovery of bones and skulls at Camp Lindo. The Joint Services have since strongly denied this.

Greene subsequently indicated that initial findings of the Trinidadian forensic experts who visited a few days ago supported the police theory.

To picket UN

However, Patricia and her relatives were adamant that something is wrong and she said that she would continue to speak out as no one can hurt her and even if this is done it would be just her flesh. The woman vowed to picket the United Nations (UN) office.

And the weeping mother of Lancelot Lee, Olinda Debydin said that she would just keep praying as she hopes that the truth will one day prevail. “I would pray and hope that we know the truth, we cannot get on bad, I believe that prayer would bring things to light,” the woman said as she silently wept, stating that she misses her son very much.

The man’s brother, Wayne Lee, who also made the visit said that the DNA testing is one part of the investigation and not really the most important part as the big questions remains is “Who did it?” He said that is the question that needs to be answered.

The same sentiments were expressed by the relatives of Horace Drakes and Clifton Wong, Lena Waldron and Courtney Wong, mother and brother of the two men respectively.

Waldron said that her entire family is very disturbed by the incident even more so because they believe that they are not being told the truth “and this leaves you with a heavy burden.” She said that she hopes that one day the truth will prevail and she questioned why the authorities did not seek the help of the experts in the United Kingdom whose assistance the family of the men had sought. The woman had told Stabroek News before making the visit to CID that she is not comfortable with the Jamaicans doing the testing as she would have preferred the experts from the UK. “Right now I am just going through the motion,” the woman had said to this newspaper. Courtney complained it took too long to arrive at the point they are at today in respect to the DNA testing while asking when “the real investigation will start.”

Sledge hammer

A very disturbed Yonette Torres, who along with her husband made the long trip from Kwakwani, said yesterday that she really misses her 17-year-old son. Initially she did not want him to make the trip but because she knows the manager of the camp, Bonny Harry, she decided to send the lad. “I still have his boots under me house and every time I look at it I does cry, Nigel was a very helpful child, he use to always help we. He father really taking it bad, it is hard,” the woman said yesterday.

She said what hurts even more is that the possibility exists that her sledge hammer could have been used to kill her own son. She recalled that Harry had visited their home and said he needed something very heavy to assist in repairing an engine. “My husband give he the sledge hammer and he had to leave he clothes and things by we because he say the sledge hammer done heavy.” It was this sledge hammer that is believed to have been found at the site with traces of blood on it. It is believed whoever killed the men used it to beat at least one of them in the head.

With her finger pointed to the sky Torres said, “I am not pointing my finger at anyone, I only pointing my finger to God. Justice will come, those who kill them, people crying on them day and night and I know justice will come,” the woman said. “I woulda be satisfy a little if is just shoot alone dem get and we get a body to bury, but why they had to burn them?”

Torres also questioned why members of the Joint Services were not able to detect the smoke from the fire that was used to burn the men and their belongings. “They went there, now me son had a big hammock… and a long boots and the others had things and all dem things with the bodies burn up. Why the police and the army who say they was in the area ent see thick billowing smoke?”

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29 Responses to “Emotions run high as …Lindo families give DNA”

mackydog
on July 23rd, 2008 6:44 am

The truth will come out someday. Leonard Arokium fears for his life that’s why he didn’t go to the CID for DNA contribution. The family is asking a question that has an answer right in front their eyes…Arokium knows who killed the miners and why.
It is not an easy feelings to have to know your relative is killed and you do not have a body to bury, I feel for the families. I felt it by experience, I know it. I know who did it, there was never justice served. It never comes full-circle.

[Reply to this]
Alicia
In reply to the above comment on July 23rd, 2008 9:05 am:
Can you imagine the outcry in the nation if someone had made the claims you are making about the Lusignan victims? Full circle huh? You clearly don’t feel for these families or you wouldn’t put forward veiled accusations to Arokium who lost some of his family in that vile attack. Answer this, how come the joint services who were in the area did not see smoke, did not hear shots, told us that Fineman and his gang were on the run yet he was allegedly able to pull off these killings right under their noses?

[Reply to this]
justice4all
In reply to the above comment on July 23rd, 2008 7:06 pm:
That Alicia, is an example of the kind of prejudice among some in Guyana that impells them to a double standard in whatever they do or say. If the majority of these victims belonged to another ethnic group the sentiments you responded to would be quite different. You can take the pig out of the mud but you cannot take the mud out of the pig.

Look at the trend. There was no outburst over the assasination of Ronald Waddell, but ads with guns appeared in Kaieteur news after Victor Rambaran was brutally murdered. Have you seen any reward being offered by the state for information about the murderers of Marcyn king?

There are people in Guyana who make those Southern Racist that stood along the road and hurled racial slurs at Martin luther King’s marchers look like alter boys. They are so deviously and wickedly prejudiced that formulations like the one you responded to comes naturally. The great thing about this board is that many who visit will begin to open their eyes to reality. That Guyana is an ethnocracy where triumpalism reigns supreme, emitting an unprecedented level of ignorant intolerance.

mackydog
In reply to the above comment on July 23rd, 2008 8:16 pm:
justice4all,
I take your comment personally when you refered to ’some’ of us as “double standard”. I have no time to be double standard about anything. My post was in sympathy with the families whose relatives’ remains may never be identified and as such, the families may not be able to have total completion of their family.
I made mention of it as a matter of experience…in other words, IT HAS HAPPENED TO MY FAMILY. I didn’t open my mouth and said what I said because I wanted to sound good. IT HAPPENED TO ME…YUH HEAR MEH? Until this day, since 1982, we have not been able to retrieve our relative’s body or even to know where it is, whether it was casted away at sea with an engine strapped to it or discarded somewhere on land. I have first hand experience with that type of emotions the family is going through and so I know exactly what I say comes from deep in me.
For the record - Firstly, I am not Indian (Coolie), Black (Blackman or geera head) nor Amerindian (Buck). I AM MIXED (DOUGLA). I have both coolie and blackman in me. As such, I take no preference to race. I can cuss any one and praise anyone which ever is real at the time. I am totally unbiased.
Secondly, I grew up in Guyana since in the ’60’s until 1984 when I had to run out of Guyana to save my life from the police. I never voted, never had a preference or alignment to ANY political party. What I have is a total dislike and disgust for the PNC, PNC/R, and everything about them, from Forbes Burnham right down. I HAVE NO FEAR TO TELL YOU THAT, nor do I have any apprehentions in making that public. The PPP might not be what we would like, but I understand. The PPP has still definitely delivered a lot so far.
One other thing Mr. justice4all, do you know what mooma pig said to baby pig when he asked her wha mek she mouth langg so?

Cheryl
In reply to the above comment on July 23rd, 2008 4:54 pm:
Do nothing, fear nothing AMEN!

[Reply to this]
COSMIKE
In reply to the above comment on July 24th, 2008 3:11 pm:
mackydog, You Never Cease To Amaze Me, You Said Here That In 1984 You Had To Run Out Of Guyana To Save Your life From The Police, Well Let’s Stop Here For A Minute, How Is It Then In 2008 While You’re Not Even Living In Guyana You Have This Great Trust For The POLICE And Whatever They Say?
And Let Me Add That The Police Today Are Much More Vicious Than The Ones You Ran From In 1984, Are You Feeling Me On This, YOU MY FRIEND IS NOT MAKING ANY SENSE! Not Today Yesterday The Day Before Or The Day Before That, And Finally I Really Think You Are Being Very Insensitive To The Victims And Their Families Who Have Suffered Tremendously Throughout All Of This , Just Stop Messing With Them Altogether PLEASE!
Ricky
on July 23rd, 2008 8:17 am

My heart goes out to these families. This is very painful. I have stopped leaving comments on this story for the truth keeps evading us.

My initial questions remain the same from the time this story broke. How come the Pilot and others in the Helicopter doing Air Surveilence did not observe somking rising from the mine which I guess is a relatively open field? Were they so far away that they could not hear gun shots in the fairly quiet forrested area? Could they not hear the men screaming?

Mr. Greene would realised that his reputation and that of the GPF is on the line because there is great distrust by the people of the GPF and GDF and by extent the Administration of Guyana. Something must be done quickly to stem our slippage.

[Reply to this]
Alicia
In reply to the above comment on July 23rd, 2008 9:00 am:
The truth is that people have long distrusted the police in Guyana. Phantom squads and extra judicial killings have left a deep scar on the nation. But I believe a day of retribution is coming in Guyana. This cannot go on forever. It has to stop.

[Reply to this]
GOPIE
In reply to the above comment on July 23rd, 2008 1:17 pm:
if this is so, the PNC laid the trends……it will take time to eradicate

optimistic pessimist
In reply to the above comment on July 23rd, 2008 2:24 pm:
So true Alicia. Simply put the people do not trust the police. Many times they come off as incompetent blunderers. They are brutish and have not learnt as yet that they can catch more bees with honey than with vinegar.

They have two main problems:
1. They still feel that they can beat brutalize and intimidate the truth out of people. They simply can’t seem to comprehend how important intel/info from members of the public is, along with tried and tested scientific police work, they would solve far more cases and do so accurately, than by beating and torturing “confessions” out of people.
2. The image that the public have of them using their position of authority to bully and coerce them to pay bribes and forced gratuity. For the most part, they are overjoyed to observe someone breaking the traffic laws (and other civic laws) because it means that they are presented with a golden opportunity to profit .

Can you guys imagine how badly our Joint Services have fallen if the man in the street so overwhelmingly VIEW THEN AS CAPABLE of this atrocity??? The same people who pledge to Protect and Serve us? This speaks volumes.

Uncle
In reply to the above comment on July 23rd, 2008 3:12 pm:
optimistic pessimist, everything you said about the police taking bribes is true, but you also have to look at things from the position of a police officer. These guys are grossly underpaid, they make about $30,000-$40,000 a month (can someone verify what the correct amount is?). How is a police officer expected to provide food, clothes, shelter, medical care, spending money etc. for his family on that kind of salary? That kind of money is nothing in Guyana. The problem is simple to understand; police officers jump at the opportunity to take bribes because of such a paltry sum. How can we expect a police officer to go out everyday and protect us and then we’re not paying him enough? What if an officer gets killed in the line of duty? Then what happens to his family? Where is the recognition? I remember the case of the soldier who was shot and killed in Buxton a few months ago. The army didn’t even provide a proper casket for him. Is this the respect the army gives to fallen servicemen? And then they wonder why soldiers and policemen are turning to crime.

Taking bribes has become such an everyday activity in Guyana that it can be seen in almost any government-run office.
Chemist
on July 23rd, 2008 8:47 am

This is a wake up call for the leadership of Guyana, if the people does not respect the Govt. who should be leading in transparency by example, the police who should be serving and protecting the people, the army who should be defending our people and our land and the prison services for the reform of delinquents,then heaven help us. It is time to turn the tide.

[Reply to this]
sagga Grand K-Man
on July 23rd, 2008 9:33 am

It is a crying shame, that eight men respectively died each was someone’s son father,brother husband,friend mentor and each of these surviving persons are hurt,angry and needs to know the truth,based upon the News coverage on this horrible crime it is clear that the joint service who were in the area should be questioned by an independent body. It was important for the persons attached to the Guyana Revenue Authority who were deemed to be corrupt submit to polygraph testing,isnt it of equally importance that the President and his Home Affairs Minister subject the officers who were in the area at the time of this crime to a similar exercise,particularly when the Goverment and the Commissioner of police are certain that this crime was conducted by the infamous fineman this would clear all doubts from the families and friends of the deceased the Guyanese population and would also bring about some measure of confidence in the Goverment and Armed forces of Guyana,

[Reply to this]
kaka
on July 23rd, 2008 9:40 am

it is a sad news but cooperating to investigation is must ..unless parties wanna hide truth……..

[Reply to this]
cochore
on July 23rd, 2008 10:09 am

If Arokium fears for his life, as was reported and it was the Fineman gang who was responsible for the mass slaughter according to the Police chief, then Mr Arokium would be more that anxious to seek police protection. He would have attended the DNA sampling exercise.
However, Mr Arokium’s actions speaks volumes here, because he does not want to be caught…. nowhere in the vicinity of Brickdam or Eve Leary.

[Reply to this]
Chemist
In reply to the above comment on July 23rd, 2008 12:44 pm:
He is not taking chances with those dudes in uniform my friend, he is not afraid of them but he plain don’t trust them. If he is guilty of the acts as some people claimed, then why didn’t he just complete to job by discarding the remains and not make any reports to the Police? My condolences to Mr. Arokium who has lost family members, his business, some of his freedom and now his health.

[Reply to this]
mackydog
In reply to the above comment on July 23rd, 2008 8:19 pm:
It is not the ligit uniforms Arokium is afraid of, its the people with the illigitimate uniforms he afraid of.
guyanesestarfish
on July 23rd, 2008 10:35 am

nothing good will come out for the families of this tragedy. the police forces in this country are not reliable. here’s an eg. a girl asked me for my telephone number, not wanting to give her i gave her the police station in my area number instead, just for fun. three months later i reached the same girl and she said “whampin! like you never deh home, you phone only ringing out all the time.” guyana is filled mostly with traffic police, cause there the money is. hardly you will find police looking after domestic matters.

[Reply to this]
deflect
on July 23rd, 2008 11:52 am

Speculations in several quarters both home and abroad, as to whether the bungling that took place by the GPF at Lindo Creek murder site was not deliberately done with the hope of covering up, is with some justification.

Because the Joint Services were implicated in the murder of the Lindo Creek miners, an independent investigator should have been brought in from the inception to maintain a sense of impartiality by the GPF. For the commissioner of police to say that his investigative team’s finds were corroborated by the foreign team of investigators who, by the way, used exhibits allegedly collected by the accused ( Joint Services), flies in the face of impartiality. Who is to ascertain that like the shells the police allegedly found at the murder site, any other pieces of evidence they (the police) claimed to have found at the Lindo Creek murder site were not planted there deliberately to ‘kafuffle’. This has been known to happen before in other police cases where the police themselves were implicated.

The commissioner therefore, mindful of this, ought to exercise more care in his utterances less he be confirmed as an integral part of the suspected scheme to cover-up what really took place at Lindo Creek..

[Reply to this]
batooba
In reply to the above comment on July 23rd, 2008 5:44 pm:
I agree with you deflect, the oversease investigators have to work with the evidence (supposidely) collected by their local counterparts. We all know that the police here do things differently than what is being taught in training school . eg collecting samples with their bare hands as was seen in a previous newspaper. It is also easy for scoutmaster Green and his boy scouts to plant evidence that would make them look good as if they are really doing something. I think a polygraph test of the joint services who were on the scene in front of reps of a few reputable organisations would erase all doubts.

[Reply to this]
de canadianCarl Veecock
on July 23rd, 2008 12:45 pm

cochore….

1. it is not “If Arokium fears for his life,”. The man SAID SO

2. the police DO NOT WANT TO OFFER AROKIUM PROTECTION.
Don’t you get that? They simply do not want to offer protection.
They want him to RECANT HIS PUBLIC STATEMENTS
Don’t you get that?

3. The police cannot be trusted. If the poor man ventures into their building,
they would find some excuse , reason,cause etc…to detain him and once
detained, ANYTHING GOES.
Don’t you get that?

4. Any sensible person would be very guarded about his movements once the
ire of the police has been aroused.
Just keep out of their way.
Do not go near them.
Always have someone with you as you move around.
You become a prisoner without being in prison.

cochore….please get it right.

[Reply to this]
cochore
In reply to the above comment on July 23rd, 2008 3:54 pm:
Yes I did actually get it right….But you just didn’t read the sarcasm in my post. Incidentally, we are both on the same page here and see Mr Arokium as the victim and theGPF as the perpetrator. Language is a bitch read the post again…

[Reply to this]
raulcedras
on July 23rd, 2008 1:15 pm

Here we go again. Wake up people of Guyana. We cannot let this kind of thing go no. WAKE UP & LIVE NOW!!!

[Reply to this]
totally fed up
on July 23rd, 2008 1:22 pm

OH JAH HOW MANY MORE WILL HAVE TO SUFFER THIS WAY?

WHILE I CAN UNDERSTAND THE PAINS AND THE GRIEF THE FAMLIES ARE GOING THROUGH I MUST SAY THAT JUSTIFICATION IS OF GOD.

FROM THE TIME I KNOW THE GUYANA POLICE FORCE, ONE THING I KNOW AND THAT IS “SEEKING JUSTICE THROUGH THE GUYANA POLICE FORCE IS LIKE TRYING TO TAKE A CLEAN SPOON FROM AN UNCLEAN DITCH”

I SHALL CONTINUE TO PRAY FOR THE FAMILIES OF THE DECEASED THAT ONE DAY THE GOOD FROG WILL BRING OUT WHAT HE SAW HAPPEN IN THE DARK.

MAY GOD B WITH US ALL AND MAY WE CONTINUE TO SERVE HIM THAT IF WE DIE IN LIKE MANNER WE WE’LL NOT B LOST SOULS.

[Reply to this]
scorpioles
on July 23rd, 2008 4:00 pm

My fellow Guyanese, there has been so much talk about polygraphs in GT lately.
Why don’t they polygraph the joint servicemen and end the speculation about who killed these hard-working men? My heart goes out to the family and relatives of these men. I hope we find the truth in this matter. Guyana needs a break from this murder, death and killing that is going on.

[Reply to this]
justice4all
In reply to the above comment on July 23rd, 2008 7:17 pm:
If they really believed that Fineman had done this, they would have polygraphed the members of the joint services in order to make liars of all of us who believe otherwise. The alacrity to polygraph law enforcement officials around whom suspicions of bribery and corruption abound, while maintaining a deafening silence about doing the same to others around whom suspicions of murder and mayhem abound should tell us all we need to know. The same people who were calling on the government ot polygraph CANU are conveniently leary abut that process in these more crucial circumstances.

There will come a day when justice will flow down like a mighty stream upon those who today can kill with impunity once they choose the right victims. Only one person can know a secret, and time will open the mouths of many who were there, might not have approved, but are too afraid now to say anything.

[Reply to this]
Guy Marco
on July 24th, 2008 4:22 am

If the investigation team is thinking like Mackydoy - they would get to the point very quickly. He holds the puzzle piece of the whole situation.

[Reply to this]
Cheryl
on July 24th, 2008 3:40 pm

We bloggers don’t need to get personal with each other, if Mackydog makes a statement, nothing is wrong with that, Mackydog is very sympathetic towards all the families who have lost, all of us 4 that matter are, so please, everyone has their own thoughts, right/wrong, and should be able to discuss the topic and not be attacked, we are having terrible times in our Country, we need to stand together, although some of us are not there in person, we are totally there in spirit. These killings, attacks, u name them, never once seemed to us that one day, we as a people, would have entertained the thought that a beautiful Country would have been named the “wild, wild west, there seemed to be no more respect, the GDF, GPF has lost that pride in doing a splendid job, years ago, parents could have taken a wayward child to the station to scare them back to being good, now, that same GPF has turned citizens against them, they (the GPF) are not trusted, it’s mister take a bribe now, they are making (as I was told) their quotas to supplement their salaries, I was there actually 4 times a yr, for land business, I paid close attention to the faces and eyes of some of those police in uniform, their eyes are all around, not for criminals only, they look for the weak, those they can pull over to make that extra, some of them are lke fineman, only difference is the gun is not used, my driver told me he was stopped and was asked for a tin of polish and a red ink pen, it was given, and he was allowed to leave, that person is still alive and can voucher for this. Let’s stick together, remember the world is watching us fighting, we were never a people like this.

[Reply to this]
DreamAtlanta
on July 26th, 2008 12:07 pm

I would like the DNA TESTS to be done immediately so the relatives can have their relatives remains, also the Home Affairs Ministry should put up an attractive monetary award for information leading to the conviction of persons responsible for putting not just the victims through this hell but the family too. Also the family should have the right to sue anyone convicted for whatever they own, in compensation what they have put them all through.

[Reply to this]