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Men killed at mining camp ‘beaten with hammers’, sources say. –Joint Services deny involvement

Evidence gathered at Lindo Creek, where the burned bodies of eight miners were discovered on Saturday, suggested that men had been badly beaten before they were killed as two hammers, one of them bloodied, were found close to the burnt remains.

Yesterday, amid swirling accusations that the country’s military had been involved, the Joint Services denied carrying out the slaughter, declaring that they had information from their sources on who had committed the mass murder. The Police Office of Professional Responsibility has been employed to conduct investigations, the press release said, an indication that the security forces were doing some in-house checks.

Stabroek News has been reliably informed that lawmen who visited the site on Sunday, believed that at least some of the men were beaten before they were killed and that the hammers found were the weapons used.

This newspaper has been informed that one of the skulls found at the location had an impression suggesting that the person was beaten in the head. One of the hammers, placed in that impression was a perfect match confirming that the very hammer was used to inflict the injury. While there was no visible injury to match the other hammer, the fact that it had dried blood indicated that it would have been used to beat one or more of the men, one source said.

Tortured

“Something tells me that these men were tortured before they were killed. But what they get beat for is another thing,” one source commented.

According to information reaching Stabroek News, on arrival at the camp all the lawmen found were burnt bones. “There was nothing left of the men, everything was burnt. Only a passport for one of the men was found. Nothing belonging to the others, not even clothes were found,” a source said. This source pointed out that it appeared that the persons who committed the act were attempting to obliterate all evidence of the men at the mining camp.

This newspaper was told that when the team arrived at the mining location, they observed two separate areas — a kitchen and dwelling section and another area where the men slept. While the sleeping area still had a tarpaulin over it, the other area had none and it is believed that the tarpaulin was used to gather the men and their belongings together to be burned.

This newspaper understands that the camp was in total disarray with pots and pans strewn about the place.

However, there were no mattresses, sheets, clothing or other personal belongings.

“From all indications, the men were packed on top of each other and burned,” one source said. The source said everything that belonged to the men seemed to have been burned with them. “I don’t know if they used gasoline or what, but when I tell you that even chainsaw them man burn up you will understand that they were trying to burn everything…,” the source said.

It is understood that the bodies were burnt beyond recognition. “There is nothing it was almost a cremation but it is not a total cremation because it is not complete ashes as some bones left back. But there is nothing to identify who is who, everything burn up,” Stabroek News was told. “So you can’t know if they were shot, beaten or burned alive but what I know is that they were beaten in the process of their deaths.

‘Unimaginable and unthinkable’

Meanwhile, the Joint Services statement, issued in response to an article published in this newspaper yesterday, in which George Arokium, the owner of the camp accused the security forces of killing the miners, unequivocally denied the assertions. The statement said such conjecture was unimaginable and unthinkable. “Ranks are highly and specially trained and experienced in the execution of their duties whether in urban or rural terrain,” the statement said.

Additionally, the lawmen said, the very conduct of their operations would not allow for the commission of such actions. “While we understand the state of mind of Mr Arokium, having lost his family members in this manner, it is unproductive to directly accuse the Joint Services without any shred of evidence and based solely on speculation.”

The Joint Services advised all concerned that such actions did not contribute to a wholesome security environment and called on citizens to desist from speculations and accusations. “We need to be united in the fight against crime. The Joint Services are vigorously investigating the killing of the eight men based on information received from reliable sources which indicate that this heinous and dastardly act was committed by criminal elements we are actively pursuing,” the statement said.

It added that a team, including ranks from the Police’s Office of Professional Responsibility, was conducting the investigations.

Police on Sunday said they had retrieved a number of 7.62 spent shells from the scene. However, up to press time last night, no results of ballistics testing had been issued. Stabroek News was told that investigators only yesterday began doing ballistics analyses.

Early Saturday morning, Arokium discovered all of his mining workers dead in a camp, located south-east of the country. Arokium said he only discovered skulls and bones at the scene.

Stating that he believed that the army was responsible for the attack and that it could not have been Rondell “Fineman” Rawlins and his gang, Arokium told Stabroek News in an interview on Sunday night that the fugitives would have had to go into “enemy” territory to launch the attack. He explained that the camp could only be reached by travelling strictly overland. Driving from Linden and through Ituni there was a “turn-off” 76 km before reaching the Kwakwani junction. The “turn-off” is the UNAMCO logging road, which is approximately a 30-minute walk from the main road.

According to Arokium, ‘Fineman’ and his gang would have been likely moving away from the Joint Services ranks who were scouring the area around Christmas Falls for them. ‘Fineman’ would then have logically crossed over the Berbice River, the man said. He went on to explain that had ‘Fineman’ wanted to attack the camp then he would have then had to cross the Berbice River once again, this time moving towards “enemy territory” where the Joint Services ranks were awaiting him. Arokium believes that no man in his right senses would have done that. “I think that the army did it. All the evidence points to the army,” Arokium charged.

When?

Law enforcement authorities believe that the key to clearing up the issue as to who killed the miners was for investigators to establish when they were killed. Pathologist, Dr Nehaul Singh who visited the area on Sunday was up to yesterday said to be still analyzing the evidence. Forensic experts said that given that the bodies had been burnt it would be difficult to have an early determination as to when the men were killed.

Arokium believes the miners were killed some time between Sunday, June 15 and Tuesday, June 17. He supported this position, saying that he was aware of mining activities at the camp on June 14. This camp is

situated ten miles north of Christmas Falls, the scene of a shootout between the police and gunmen on June 6.

Persons knowledgeable about the area told this newspaper that the security forces had to pass the mining camp to get to Christmas Falls. One man said that with air surveillance by helicopter and the fact that the police had said the area was cordoned off, the question the security forces must answer was why the discovery of the dead men was not made by the military before. “Why did it have to be the owner of the operation who had to travel there to make that discovery when dozens of troops were searching that area?” the man asked.

Arokium had said that he had received reports that the men were killed some time last week but only managed visit the location early Saturday morning. Upon arrival he made the discovery of burnt bones and skulls.

He told Stabroek News that on Wednesday night he had received a telephone call from a woman who told him that some “soldiers” had shot and killed his men and burnt their bodies. Later, he said, he received a second phone call from a private number. This time, Arokium explained, it was a man calling who told him the same thing. He said someone in the area had told him when he visited on Saturday that they had heard shots several days prior to his arrival. Stabroek News understands that the men who killed the miners were dressed in camouflage uniforms.

Police had encountered a group of gunmen at Christmas Falls on June 6 and killed one of them during a confrontation. However, six of the men escaped, the police said. Early last week another group of gunmen hijacked a busload of passengers on the Aroaima trail and disappeared. Police killed two gunmen subsequently at Goat Farm, located some 90 miles from Christmas Falls and arrested another - a teenager — at Ituni. It is not clear whether the men who were killed — Julius Chung and Cecil Ramcharran — were among the hijackers. Police have not been able to explain how the gunmen who were first confronted at Christmas Falls were able to move 90 miles, breaking out of a cordon, which was reportedly established.

Some observers believe that the lawmen might have been up against two groups of gunmen –one at Christmas Falls and the other at Goat Farm. Rawlins was said to have been in the Christmas Falls area and he and others might have already cleared out of the jungle.

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128 Responses to “Men killed at mining camp ‘beaten with hammers’, sources say. –Joint Services deny involvement”

foreveryoung
on June 24th, 2008 6:48 am

The evidence speaks for itself. If the police or soldiers or both were in the area since June 6 in pursuit of Rawlins and his gang and one of the men was killed on this date. Mr. Arokium was aware of mining operations as of June 14. would Rawlins retrun to the area after fleeing? Indeed, why wasn’t the burnt camp discovered by the police, soldier and it is established they were in the area? There must have been fire and smoke that would have caught attention.

[Reply to this]
amen-ra
on June 24th, 2008 7:05 am

This is a ball of confusion, according to the news info, and the investigation team no one knows who really killed these miners. speculations are running high to what may have really happened and lindo creek, i guesss no one knows, but according to mr. arokium it point out to the joint forces and he said he stands by his claim, this info is also was of people who knew the are well. one investigator said that they found two hammers which was used in the killing of these men it seems that they were also tortured this is a real tragedy. my condolences goes out to the griveing families may you find the strenght to carry on. and to the police please be diligent in your investigation and leave no stones unturned and get to the bottom of this crime, and if upon catching fineman bring him in alive so we can know who he really is and who are the people who financed him in his operation we need to know.

[Reply to this]
motherofmine
on June 24th, 2008 7:34 am

this is a shame, first the president and his keystone cops with foolishness, now it is the joint services

[Reply to this]
dinks77
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 1:33 pm:
well said

[Reply to this]
springs
on June 24th, 2008 7:52 am

We have a very serious crime committed and evryone is accussing each other of committing the crime. I am not prepare to accuse anyone as yet. First let me offer my condolence to the family of the decease persons.

I am not from Guyana and I am not educated enough on the geography of the interior. This country is vast with thousand of miles of forest and many places for person(s) to hide. Therefore I am not getting into the debate whether it is possible for the Joint Forces to carried out the act or Fineman or may be another group of persons.

There are numerous theroies but I will look for the circumstances evidence which should link us to the person or persons who committed the crime. I know from expierence that it is fairly difficult for the Guyana police to determine beyond a shadow of doubt whether it is Fineman,Joint Forces or any other group who committed the crime.

The police must examined the views of Mr. Arokium and try to established whether his theroy could be correct because I assume that he is fairly knowledgeable about the terrian. Secondly if other persons beside the joint services could have entered the area and committed the crime. Thirdly is it possible and rebutting Mr.Arokium suggestion that Fineman could not have done it because of the accessibilty and therefore it is the Joint Forces. Finally the Joint Forces were in the area and therefore they must be view as a suspect since various theroies suggest such.

Reading the newspaer it appears that majority of the evidence are destroy however, the police have discovered some shells which will be able to established which gun (s) the shells came from whether it is the Joint Forces.

I want to make it very clear now that the expert who will be doing the test will be very fair in his examination because his reputation will now be on line and the international community will be watching and furthermore, there are other experts who will be watching how he arrives at his conclusion. I am confident that his findings will be objective.

[Reply to this]
Davo
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 9:02 am:
Springs your are not Guyanese, but you seem to be on the right track and would think that in any other country there would be an easy, fair and quick deduction by any investigating team, as to who killed these men.
But you have to have a look at our recent past and the other hundreds of Unsolved Mysteries starting with Ms. Monica Reece, to know this is not so in GT.
Fineman gang spent shells have been at every crime scene since they became notorious. Why not this one?
If there is any other deduction I will immediately pack my bags and return to Guyana.
I sympathies with the families of these gentlemen, knowing that it is unlikely they will ever get any justice!!!!!!!

[Reply to this]
bluegrass
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 6:07 pm:
for sure the joint services, will not used a hammer to kill, could it be or is it possible
that fineman and his gang determine that these miners inform the S.F. that they were hiding there and they decide to take revenge on them.

[2]The owner said that they wash for gold on the 14th., so is it possible that someone who knew that they wash for gold and then went to rob them, and kill each and everyone, and is it possible that the woman and man who called him was part of the gang that went and robed them and find it so easy to blame the S.F. for their crime since they were operating in the area.
this is my opinion , what do you think.

[Reply to this]
carifesta_guru
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 7:46 pm:
Well said

[Reply to this]
dinks77
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 1:41 pm:
the question or should i say questions is/are why cant the joint services prove their innocence, my personal symphaty to the families of the murdered men esp the arokuims i was lucky to know those wonderful people. i think its time for less talking and more action on the police. if i was mr jagdeo i would have resign if i cant solve this one its time you stop taking stupid excuses from the police.

[Reply to this]
ms guyana
on June 24th, 2008 8:26 am

more Guyana madness that will probably remain unsolved
sad affair

[Reply to this]
BOEING777
In reply to the above comment on June 25th, 2008 7:59 pm:
the police & joint services could not find their “proverbial hands” in the dark, even if you gave them a flash light. they will never find the so called “fineman”… whomever this person is, he has outsmarted these listless lethargic force.

[Reply to this]
rk
on June 24th, 2008 8:45 am

I am re-posting my comments from yesterday just to that we can gather more views and comments.

WHO DID IT??

I had some questions maybe the posters here can help me figure out.

Why did one of the miners not call his wife when we arrived at the mining site around May 27? She said that he called her every other time but not this time.

Keep in mind that the first sign of the Gang was on Friday June 6th. See link below.
http://www.stabroeknews.com/?p=14535

It is very possible that the Gang killed these MEN on the way to Christmas Falls, took there foodstuff and belongings and BURNT the bodies so that the remains didn’t smell.

BTW Dax was a personal friend of mine, he attended St Stanislaus College and later the Univeristy Of Guyana. He was a gifted BasketBall Player [http://www.landofsixpeoples.com/news02/ns2051613.htm] and an overall great person.

We will have to wait until the time of death was established.

“According to Mrs. Wong, Cedric left for the interior at around May 27. He promised to return by June 13, in time for one of his daughter’s birthday.
According to Mrs. Wong, her husband would always contact her when he arrived at an interior location. This time, he did not.
After she expressed her concern to camp boss Leonard Arokium, he assured her that he would try to contact the crew by radio and would inform her when he succeeded.”

Mrs Wong never got back word from Mr Aroukium after June 13th. So he must not have been able to make contact by radio. Mr Aroukium also said that when he first visited to site the water suggested that there were no recent mining activity.

Mr Aroukium did not give specifics on the reports he received else he would have said that x,y or z contacted him on x/x/08 and said they had just washed and he would have gotten back to Mr Wong as she requested that of him.

This is a very decent family and I hate to put all of this out there but there are questions that still needs answered

Actually the report is not adding up as IF he had gotten word that they were alive, he would have told miss Wong that her husband was alive. She had still not known the whereabouts of her husband since he got to the camp and had asked Mr Aroukium to inquire which he never got back to her on.

Only God Knows, Condolences to my Friend Dax and his Family. I will not be at ease until this matter is resolved

It is possible that Dax and his men were killed by gunmen before they reached Christmas Falls

“According to him, he had received reports that the crew had ‘washed down’on Saturday, June 14.
He believes that his crew was slain between Sunday, June 15 and Monday, June 16. The pathologist is still to pronounce on this. However, the men might have been killed earlier, since, according to Mr Arokium, he had not made any contact with them for some time.”

[Reply to this]
Guyanese4life
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 9:45 am:
My Condolences to the families who lost their loved ones…this is truly a sad state of affairs.

RK…Your theory makes sense as the other theory of mistaken identity. Lets examine both for a minute.

There are a few flaws in your theory. Firsty, you will have to claim that your friends father had to be lying about the wash down? What would motivate him to lie about that…only you can answer. His son was killed, his brother was killed, I am sure his friends and employees were killed, his camp was destroyed and obviously diamond and gold missing. With all of those facts would Mr. Arokium not make truthful claims to get to the bottom of this heinous crime? Do you suggest that he is supportive of Fineman and his gang as against the Joint Services. Don’t you think that he would understand the entire situation better than most of us to make this damning Judgement…Well I for one believes his theory has more grounding than all others presented so far but who cares what I think?

Secondly, If the gunmen were to have killed these men before reaching Christmas Falls and considering Mr. Arokium is a liar then it would have been very safe to say that our great Joint Services would have had the opportunity to find a camp 10 miles from Christmas Falls and unearthed this grave crime? Your theory then justifies many other commentators that our Joint Services are incompetent to say the least.

Your theory would have been the most likely if the Joint Services had found the camp. Since this is the only time it gives motive, time and opportunity for the crime to the “Gang”. Anytime after the 6th June, the “gang” had no reason to do this since it appears that this was not their Modus Operandi, note…the minibus hijacking and the 6 armed dreadlocks that spent the night with the man at the camp as reported in earlier news reports.

The other Theory is pretty straightforward. JS searching for fineman…incompetently misses the camp on their first search, ends up finding the men probably at night and opens fire (eight black men in bush), killing them senselessly. When excited about being the ones to have found and killed fineman and his gang goes over to see the faces, to be very disappointed and shocked that they got the wrong guys, panicks and burn them to hide evidence of weapons used. End of story.

Awaiting your rebuttal RK

[Reply to this]
rk
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 11:13 am:
First Off - Thank you for taking the time to scrutinize my post. I take it in good stand.

Ok so lets go over this again as according to Mr Arokium, he had not made any contact with them for some time. Had this been so, Miss Wong would have been told by Mr Arokium that her husband arrived at the camp and was well. This proves that as of May 27 he had not made contact with the camp. We need a date of when and of who indicated they had washed down if this is the case.

It is not strange that the first though in Mr Arokium mind would be robbery as we are dealing with precious metals and lots of money here. The team had a license firearm so they were somehow exposed to that possibility and wanted to be prepared so they applied and was granted a firearm license.

With any crime however the two leading factors are MOTIVE and EVIDENCE. The latter we haven’t yet received but in this case the MOTIVE is definitely GREED either on FineMan’s gang’s part or the GDF. Who knows? Question is would greed lead a person to crack the skull of another when they could have been shot. That seems more like the work of a psychopath - the Fineman gang.

What we know is this. FineMan was in the area and is known for mass murders such as this, sort of a trade mark for him by now.

With regards to the Joint Service finding the bodies, I would hate to touch on this as they are not marked roads or stop lights. It is a Jungle out there and it is possible that they could have gone un- noticed.

It is also possible, that a few members of the GDF killed these hard working miners as a result of GREED but when would this have happened. Had this happened after the Christmas Falls attach? For this theory to hold, it had to!!! as the GDF weren’t in the area before that. So lets assume the GDF attacked after the Christmas Falls attack, then the smoke would have been visible by AIR and this would have had to be a massive cover up by multiple members of the GDF.

So why does one burn bodies - to hide the identity of course but definitely but not in this case. Mr Arokium would have eventually inquired at this camp so why would anyone want to hide the identities. Their identities could not be hidden because their location was established. Whoever did this wanted to cover their tracks and the smell.

IT IS ALSO POSSIBLE that they were killed in error but how does one explain someone cracking the skulls of these defenseless miners with a sledge hammer. No one cracks the skull of miners in error, they get shot in error but they wont receive cracked skulls in error.

Hoping to hear other views.

owenon123
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 7:41 pm:
Guyanese4life:

You are the best on this one and your theory is similar to the ones I posted yesterday and today below in reply to Mackdog’s statement.

You could not have said it better. I like your Critical Thinking (Philosophy) sir. You exercise great Ethical Judgment in this matter!

In my comment yesterday, I said I do not think it was intentionally done but in their pursued towards the camp, they killed the wrong people and when they realized they burnt the bodies to hide the victim’s identities.

pepie
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 10:18 am:
I don’t think you are following the reports on this incident clearly because you seem to think that your theory is correct despite all the other evidence pointing in an opposite direction.

Let me restate what Mr Arokium said, “he believes the miners were killed some time between Sunday, June 15 and Tuesday, June 17. He supported this position, saying that he was aware of mining activities at the camp on June 14.” Again i’m going to ask you this question, since Mr Arokium seems to be the only person so far with Credibility here, the only one with expert knowledge of the area and the only person who we know received two calls concerning the incident, are you questioning this man’s ability to tell the truth? It certainly seems so to me.

Your entire theory is based on one of the miners not calling his wife. Could there be any other reason(s) why he did not call is wife other than being dead? My point is, so far the only person who seems to have a some what decent idea as to how these men meet their end is Mr. Arokium. The Joint Services doesn’t know or have a clue, we don’t know if it was fineman and his gang, we don’t know if it was the Phantom or the death squad(s). So, until tthe time of death can be determine i’m going to be with Mr. Arokium on this.

I keep saying over and over in these blogs that there is another group/gang out there and it is becoming more and more evident. This reminds me of 2002 - 2006 when the Police and the Army had no idea how suspected bandits were being killed. Do you remmeber that? Who ever did this went to great odds to conceal all the evidence by burning everything.

RK do you have any idea how long it would take to toture( Extracting information), kill, pile up the bodies and the evidence (like clothes, beds etc) then burn them. I am assuming that the killers waited until most of the evidence was burnt before moving on. I’m suggesting more than an hour. Doesn’t something look funny here.

I will like for you to develope your theory some more and not base it on one phone call.

[Reply to this]
rk
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 11:49 am:
“he believes the miners were killed some time between Sunday, June 15 and Tuesday, June 1″ - the key word is believe, meaning to expect or suppose, to have an opinion; think” - This does not make Mr Arokium a lair, someone that I have met personally before, it is just that this is his belief.

It is very possible that there is another group out there, or that the initial six officers that carried out the initial attach at christmas fall were involved.

pepie
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 12:34 pm:
Yes agree…but isn’t he making it pillucidly clear that it could not have happened before june 15 by providing a time frame of june 15 - june 17. My understanding is that he believes it happened somewhere around the 15 - 17 june but not before since on june 14 he was knowledgeable about their wash down. However did you read KN today.

kmatt
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 1:17 pm:
pepie

I have said the same thing many times before. THERE ARE MORE THAN ONE GANG OPERATING OUT OF GUYANA..people stop being so nieve. The GDF has no clue if fineman and his gang were ever in the area.. Don’t you think the owner has more credibility and than the imcomptent GDF…guys give me a break..

My heart bleeds for the people of guyana!

pepie
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 10:31 am:
One other thing RK how come the Joint Service miss this camp, which is situated 10 miles from Christmas falls but happen to kill two bandits 90 miles away?

I keep saying that there is another group/gang/death squad out there and the diary(spy equipment) is at work. MAYBE calls were intercepted from Mr.Arokium camp by the diary which lead to the slaugthering of these miners.

[Reply to this]
pepie
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 11:18 am:
Read todays Kaieteur News

Article: “Mine owner refuses to accept Joint Services’ claim”.

If this doean’t put your theory to rest i don’t know what will. Its going to be hard to shut Mr. Arokium up because he has extensive knowledge of this area and making him out to be a liar is going to be hard to. I’m waiting to hear whats next.

[Reply to this]
bluegrass
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 6:08 pm:
luegrass UNITED STATES
In reply to the above comment on June 24, 2008 6:07 pm:

for sure the joint services, will not used a hammer to kill, could it be or is it possible
that fineman and his gang determine that these miners inform the S.F. that they were hiding there and they decide to take revenge on them.

[2]The owner said that they wash for gold on the 14th., so is it possible that someone who knew that they wash for gold and then went to rob them, and kill each and everyone, and is it possible that the woman and man who called him was part of the gang that went and robed them and find it so easy to blame the S.F. for their crime since they were operating in the area.
this is my opinion , what do you think.

[Reply to this]
rupman
on June 24th, 2008 8:46 am

If the soldiers committed this heinous crime then someone from within the force will eventually crack and start talking. After all, they are human and must be feeling some amount of remorse and guilt over what transpired (they can’t all be inhumane, can they??).
It is time some of our reporters start doing their job and do some actual investigative journalism. Let them start getting info on the names of soldiers/police who were involved in the manhunt for ‘Fineman’ and start conducting some research. Somewhere they’ll pick up clues if the security forces were involved.
How about a team of journalists visit the Lindo Creek/Christmas Falls area and talk to people from the area? Who knows, clues may start arising.
Come on you journalists, go out there and investigate!!!

[Reply to this]
Alicia
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 9:19 am:
I agree with this. All they have to do is aggressively pursue the men who were actually on the Fine man hunt. The thing is which reporter is going to have the guts to put their life at risk like that? Because cold blooded killers will always kill again.

[Reply to this]
Guyanese4life
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 9:54 am:
I was almost killed along with my pregnant wife and few friends because of being a certain race in a certain village after dark.

It was only for my wife being pregnant and I knowing one of the officers that we were saved or else one would have heard a report of me having AK 47 and firing shots linking me to one of the murders in 2003.

I was scared…It freaked out my wife…they had their guns already to shoot…they had to displace of the bullets in the chamber by shooting in the air.

So would I believe it could have been a careless accident…absolutely. Could it have been the fineman gang, probably but highly impossible.

Either the JS comes out as very incompetent or liars to their manhunt for fineman or they come out as cowards and cover ups.

For people to refer to these 8 deaths (Mackydog) as collateral damage is beyond my comprehension. Why didn’t he say that Lusignan was collateral damage or Bartica.

This is an obvious reason why crime prevails in Guyana…we have people supporting one crime and critizing another. One man’s terrorist is another man’s Hero.

[Reply to this]
mackydog
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 7:02 pm:
Guyanese4life, when I said that the deaths of these 8 miners in a previous post, I was giving the benifit of the doubt on one hand to the fact that the joint services MAY have killed these miners. I did also mention that “this is a war”.
This is a war indeed between the joint services, Fineman Rawlins and anyone else in Guyana with a weapon/firearm greater than what the police permits or any illegal firearm. This is NOT a joke G4life, this is serious business, this is the armed forces of a democratic country against guerillas bogged down in the jungle killing everyone in their path to survive and to create havoc and fear into the nation…and they are succeeding at it, so it’s not a joke. THEREFORE, during the operations of the security forces some innocent folks get killed/hurt in the process, should be considered “collateral damage”. G4life, (let’s say hypotetically the joint forces did it) what if the men WERE Fineman Rawlins and his gang, and the joint forces came upon them and then we hear that a few of the troops were killed in the process and ALL of Fineman men escaped, what would YOU say? I know, nuff noise about joint forces incompetence, etc. It is the rule of the military to attack and kill or - be killed.
A word of advice…brace yourself for more “collateral damage” until these killers are found and illimated.
ankoko
on June 24th, 2008 8:47 am

More Confusion. When will it end. Whenever something happens and facts/explanations are so varied and limited it is reasonable for the populace to form conclusions whatever those conclusions may be. The people especially those who lost loved ones and breadwinners can’t wait forever for the information.
At the moment it surely doesn’t look good on the part of the law enforcement people. Come on folks - Say something and most of all do something. The silence/non information is getting deafening!

[Reply to this]
Alicia
on June 24th, 2008 8:58 am

No, No Joint Services, you can’t distract us from the truth now. The evidence is clear.
I believe a big investigation will be set up as a farce and at the end of it nothing will remain but the graves of those poor men. One day justice will prevail, one day.

[Reply to this]
stone80
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 10:49 am:
that day you are talking about will never come.you are living on false hope.

[Reply to this]
pepie
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 11:47 am:
I agree with you here.lolol

foreveryoung
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 1:00 pm:
I totally agree but my big hope is that someone from the JS crack and talk.

dinks77
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 2:06 pm:
sad for you judgement day is a fact.
Raj
on June 24th, 2008 9:29 am

The more we hear, the more confusing it becomes. The media need to look at the angles of Mr. Arokium and the army stories….something is not adding up. My condolence to the bereaved families.

[Reply to this]
pelican_p
on June 24th, 2008 9:57 am

me thinks that the killings were done by the fine man gang with an intention to sow the seeds for the current confusion over who killed these miners. The blame is now being put on the joint forces and this was probably one of the reasons - to discredit them.

We should allow the police investigatiors to come up with the findings of thier investigation.

[Reply to this]
pepie
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 11:51 am:
How did you arrrive at this conclusion? What is your theory here? I don’t think you are following the state of events here.

[Reply to this]
pelican_p
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 8:44 pm:
I have taken the Police / joint services at their word . I don’t believe that they would kill miners with hammers and then burn their bodies . Its crazy . Certainly this brutality matched that of Lusignan and Bartica.

It appears that according to my reasoning , the killings were made to put the blame and demotivate and discredit the Joint forces.

The brutality certainly signals ruthless murderers similar to the Fineman gang.

I would be very sad if it was the Joint services that did this.

We should wait for the investigation.

dinks77
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 2:12 pm:
wait until you visit guyana and encounter the joint services i was there in march when you see the police or soldier you feel a sudden fear.
justice4allguyana
on June 24th, 2008 10:32 am

This will be another unsolved crime. What is really going on in this our Guyana?

All these stories are not adding up at all. This sounds like the JS mistook the miners for the gang that they were hunting for and in order to cover their mistake burn the miners.

What a sad state of affairs, condolence to the families.

[Reply to this]
GT_BANA
on June 24th, 2008 10:32 am

Just a few questions I have.

First, how come the Joint Forces didn’t come across this camp while searching the area by air and land?

Second, Why would Fineman and his gang flee back to that area when they were supposedely being pursuited by the Joint Force?

Third, Mr. Arokium story makes sense but at the same time, were his employees actually killed around the time frame he suggested? If that was the case then how come anyone didn’t noticed the smoke??? Were the Joint Forces still in the area to begin with???

I hope they conduct a thorough investigation but I dont think the investigators will be able to determine who commited these killings. Even if it was determined that the Joint Forces played a role do you all actually believe that information will be available to the public ?? Think of all the caos it would cause between the people in Guyana and the government agencies.

[Reply to this]
pepie
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 12:00 pm:
Good questions and i hope they are answered. Once we can determine the time of death then we would know which direction to point to but so far Mr. Arokium seems to have the more plausible answers.

I thought came to my mind, a little while ago…..Mr. Arokium is dead certain it wasnt fineman gang, apart from his explaination in the dailies which seems consistent, i beg to ask the question why is he appearing to be putting his head on a block that it is not fineman and his gang or this is just his analysis of the events from June 6 - todate? I’m still with him but my mind is working here.

[Reply to this]
Alli
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 12:51 pm:
you think the police would conduct their ballistic tests soon?

pepie
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 3:02 pm:
Yes they will but It is becoming harder and harder to believe the results from these ballistic test. I say this because none of the ballistic test that was done between 2002 - todate ever implicated the Death squads, Phantom or RK and his boys weapons in any crime. We know today by RK own admission that he was involved in the “So call Crime fighting ” which alledgely result in the deaths of over 200 persons. In other words he was another freedom fighter.
borntwice
on June 24th, 2008 10:41 am

What ever happened to foot prints and booth prints and finger prints.

[Reply to this]
pepie
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 12:01 pm:
Where are the tracker dogs?

[Reply to this]
kmatt
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 1:26 pm:
pepie

Remember this is guyana we are talking about..Tracker dogs! lol..Guyana has many does but not tracking dogs..You think they can feed those dogs..where will they find the budget..lol
stone80
on June 24th, 2008 10:47 am

Amid all this confusion(as usual), too many fingers are being pointed.let the investigation be completed then all these PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS here can conclude.

[Reply to this]
Arcadia Terry
on June 24th, 2008 10:56 am

I hope we do not have another phantom squad that was formed to hunt these men .I am concrened by these words, a special squad was formed to hunt these men

[Reply to this]
Guy99
on June 24th, 2008 11:12 am

Who will investigate this crime? Will the Guyana govt let the joint services investigate this crime? I don’t expect the joint services to be honest. The joint services is looking for fineman and his gang. They have a picture of fineman but they don’t have the names or pictures of the others in his gang. I can see how these men were mistaken for fineman gang. I expect to hear later from the Guyana govt that this is the work of fineman and his gang.

[Reply to this]
mackydog
on June 24th, 2008 11:15 am

Well, it’s all coming to light slowly, just like I said before, the joint services could not have possibly done something so stupid and heinous. If anyone is to be suspected for this it would be Fineman Rawlins. How far away is Lindo Creek from Christmas River…? Only 10 miles, so how difficult is it for Fineman to have been in contact with the miners? It’s strongly believed that Fineman’s gang assaulted the miners’ camp and slaughtered the men in retribution for one or more of the miners informing the security forces of Fineman’s presence in the immediate area. Doesn’t the description of the crime scene indicate to anyone the anger that the perpetrators had? This is not the acts of the GPF or GDF, I mean, the security forces would come in a squad…10 or maybe 30 troops, be real y’all, would it be concievable for ALL the members of the security forces to unanimously agree to bundle 8 men in a tarpoline and burn them up including their power saw and all? I don’t think so, and so will no logical thinking person. If it wasn’t Fineman and his gang of murderers that did this unimaginable murder, then it’s someone else who is really pissed off at the Arokiums and his crew…or maybe Yettie is now in the South American jungle.
I think also that the security forces should question the woman who called Mr. Arokium to inform him of the report about the men being killed. She said someone told her about it so she was letting Mr. Arokium know. Who is the “someone” that told her? It means that that person was there to know that it was some “soldiers” who did it as that’s what she said the person said. Could that person be Fineman or a member of his gang? Which means the woman informant had/has contact with Fineman.
Where is the evidence (even circumstancial) that the joint forces did the killing…is the evidence because the security forces were in the area hunting criminals it can only be them? Well, Fineman was also in the area and he has a much greater motive to do this murderous act. He had no more supplies (since he had to run without warning), fewer weapons, wanted no witnesses and most of all…revenge for the police knowing where Fineman was because he suspected the miners informed the police. Fineman was indeed pissed off, he came close to being dead, who won’t?
Mr. Arokium said it was the army, but that is understandable since his frame of mind is in disarray at the moment. He has to say it was the army because he has an investment in the area. He know that if Fineman is not caught he too could never go back to the camp, so his investment is dead until such time Fineman is dead, do you think he wants Fineman being mad at him too for talking against Fineman?
As for the families of the miners, I send you my sincere condolences.
I knew Cecil Arokium personally. I remembered the days up to around April ‘05 when he would come and hang out with me at my house in Chandisingh St., Port Mourant (not Rose Hall Town) on the Corentyne. We had a lot of personal conversations and I’d help him out on issues he faced. He was good company. He did not have to die this way.
May the soul of my friend Cecil “Whitey” Arokium rest in peace.

[Reply to this]
GT_BANA
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 12:39 pm:
I agree with you on questioning the woman who made the call to Mr. Arokium. She could possible put to rest all the speculations as to WHO DID IT. They also need to question her source or sources that informed her of this tragedy.

[Reply to this]
INXS
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 12:44 pm:
“It’s strongly believed that Fineman’s gang assaulted the miners’ camp and slaughtered the men in retribution for one or more of the miners informing the security forces of Fineman’s presence in the immediate area.”
I spoke to someone from Guyana last sunday, and it is the theory that is spreading locally. You’ve mentioned a few good points. I don’t think the police or army would have killed these men in such brutal fashion; they would have all been shot. To me this killing was a statement, it was too brutal not to be.

[Reply to this]
Alli
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 12:50 pm:
and your frame of mind to suggest otherwise is preposterous. Trying to pin the blame on Fineman is too easy.

[Reply to this]
pepie
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 12:51 pm:
Good points Macky…..Another angle that we can look at.

Question thou.. the GPF reported that they 6 bandits left with just clothes on their backs, how come they now have M70 and AK47 rifles in their possession? How do we account for the two bandits that were killed 90 miles from Christmas Falls carrying in their possession all that stuff? Mr.Arokium should be asked to identify the article that was recovered when chung boy was killed to see if any of the articles belong to his men? The GPF told us the Gang number six at the time they split up, so let assume they carried out this act then split up, then some of the items recovered should belong to Mr. Arokium workers.

As much as you give us another angle to look at, somethings are just not adding up.

I personal believe is that there is another gang/group/squad out there.

[Reply to this]
colt45
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 1:16 pm:
Mackydog, you seem to be one of the few that comment on this website, with the ability to reason for yourself instead of flying off the handle based on hearsay and trumped up conclusions.
Most seem to be the product of a previous era.

[Reply to this]
kmatt
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 1:29 pm:
Mackdog

Where is the evidence fineman was in the area…we don’t know..so stop talking nonsense!

[Reply to this]
stone80
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 4:29 pm:
it seems like only very few ppl make sense on this site MD.You have hit all the the points.

[Reply to this]
gtbeat
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 5:28 pm:
This has revenge written all over it, any joint sevices operation would have senior officers leading them, these people were beaten with hammers.
Only criminals elements would do this.

[Reply to this]
bluegrass
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 6:28 pm:
well said macky, i made a post before i read yours, read it and let me know what you think.

[Reply to this]
mackydog
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 10:36 pm:
bluegrass I just read your post, sorry to be so late, it makes some sense too.

owenon123
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 6:50 pm:
I AWAIT YOUR REPLY MACKYDOG:

Mackydog do u really knows where your head is.

Alternatively, do you really read carefully, identify facts, and test the opinions. Do you check the facts and test the opinions. Do you evaluate the evidence and conduct research. Do you make your judgment by evaluating the evidence and opinions?

Here is an outline of facts, opinions and questions for you to answer as follows:

Why was the Media not invited to accompany the government officials to the crime seen?

Why would ‘fineman’ and his crew want to burn all these things including the bodies knowing the Joint services are around searching of them? By the way, they need clothes to wear. Was the camp and man robbed of anything?

These are good questions for you Mackydog as follows:

1. “One man said that with air surveillance by helicopter and the fact that the police had said the area was cordoned off, the question the security forces must answer was why the discovery of the dead men was not made by the military before.”

2. “Why did it have to be the owner of the operation who had to travel there to make that discovery when dozens of troops were searching that area?” the man asked.

3. “According to Arokium, ‘Fineman’ and his gang would have been likely moving away from the Joint Services ranks who were scouring the area around Christmas Falls for them. ‘Fineman’ would then have logically crossed over the Berbice River, the man said.”

4. “Arokium believes the miners were killed some time between Sunday, June 15 and Tuesday, June 17. He supported this position, saying that he was aware of mining activities at the camp on June 14. This camp is situated ten miles north of Christmas Falls, the scene of a shootout between the police and gunmen on June 6.”

Mackydog in your statement this is what you said as follows:

5. “It’s strongly believed that Fineman’s gang assaulted the miners’ camp and slaughtered the men in retribution for one or more of the miners informing the security forces of Fineman’s presence in the immediate area. Doesn’t the description of the crime scene indicate to anyone the anger that the perpetrators had?”

6. “This is not the acts of the GPF or GDF, I mean, the security forces would come in a squad…10 or maybe 30 troops, be real y’all, would it be concievable for ALL the members of the security forces to unanimously agree to bundle 8 men in a tarpoline and burn them up including their power saw and all? I don’t think so, and so will no logical thinking person.

Mackydog, they say war have rules but let me tell you this when it comes to war especially in the jungle trust me it does not have not one bit of rules okay sir.

As you say, if these men were in fact informers the Joint services would have got them well protected under their radar.

What if the Joint services were accusing and torturing the miners of harboring and supporting ‘fineman’ and this crew.

Have you ever thought of that Mackdog?

I don’t want you to hide, face the facts.

I await your reply Mackydog.

[Reply to this]
mackydog
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 11:27 pm:
owenon123, thank you for the questions. Firstly, I do read well and I also do evaluate facts, quiet unlike some of us who jump to conclusions without knowledge. All the facts I stated in my posts are what I concieve to be logical regardless of the players.
I cannot answer precisely why the media was not invited to the scene, but my opinion is maybe because of the means of getting there (maybe by chopper) with the other investigators, pathologist, doctors, police, etc. it would be considered inconvenient for all to go at the same time. Or maybe the media got there by their own means and was not there at the same time as the rest.
The air surveillance by helicopter is over-estimated. Remember, a helicopter can only fly for so long before refuelling, it has to go back to base occationally. What you are misconstrued with is “constant aerial surveillance” and the only way that can be achieved is if the Guyana govt. has access to a satellite miles high in the sky constantly focused on the Guyana jungle area to say at any given second what it sees. Helicopters work differently so we have to cater for lapse time, which the killers will also do.
My suggestion why Fineman would want to burn everything is because Fineman has a very disturbed mind. He is pissed off, very pissed off. Let me even further suggest maybe Fineman and Arokium’s men had a relationship where Fineman probably left some of his loot and weapons with the miners for safe-keeping in case of emergency and now when there is an emergency, Fineman went back to collect his loot and weapons stash and the minors couldn’t deliver his things. Compounded with the fact that it may be the miners who sold out Fineman’s camp to the police (that’s why the miners wouldn’t be giving back nothing because they would think from their info to the police, Fineman would be killed so who they giving anything back to?) Fineman got over-pissed and slaughtered everyone.
The owner, Mr. Arokium had to be the one to travel to the scene because it is his business and interest. He was responsible for the men’s lives and welfare.

No. 3 is totally Mr. Arokium’s opinion. For all you know Fineman and his gang could have been hiding at the top of those trees while everyone else passes under. Who is to say he was actually gone over the Berbice river and had to turn back?

War does have rules, but that is according to the Geneva Convention where two or more armies in uniform are in confrontation. This is a different kind of war, guerilla warfare, which has its own set of rules with one army with uniform and the other without, where one side plays by the rules by shooting to kill with guns and bullets and the other beat and torture to kill with sledge hammers and chainsaws. I hope you’re not asking that Fineman be treated gently in this game in the future owenon123.

I never said that these miners were “in fact informers”. I said that it was Fineman’s suspicion that it was these men who informed on his whereabouts that Fineman was in the area, but something else came to my mind as mentioned above about the miners stashing loot. What do you expect the joint forces to do to protect the miners when they informed, be in the miners camp in case Fineman showed up? That would only skin-up the miners if Fineman had info about that. To besides, the miners won’t want protection because they might have been assured that the joint services would clean up Fineman.
owenon123, what I did think of was that the joint forces would not torture anyone by beating them in their head with sledge hammers and cutting them up with a power chain saw.
I don’t have to hide …from you of anyone, ever. When it comes to the facts, I don’t have any because I wasn’t there, but I’m sure close to the truth from what the news provide as it comes in. I know you’re in the same boat as me, I’m willing to lend you my paddle like I just did, thanks for asking. Sorry I replied to you so late, I hope you don’t go to sleep before seeing my “brave response”.
Good night owenon123.
rdman
on June 24th, 2008 11:41 am

Blame it on the fineman gang,a United Nations commission of inquiry is needed here,we can’t let the army or police investigate this massacre.

[Reply to this]
Amarie
on June 24th, 2008 12:04 pm

After listening to all this, I could only state that the tool of choice here should be a complete timeline showing all we know about the movements/locations of the victims, the owner, Fineman and his gang and the Joint Services.
Only after a clear timeline is constructed and incorporated with the collected evidence can reasonable conclusions be made. Guyanese people are smart but often leap about the issues on hearsay and suspicions leaving the real evidence behind. For once let’s get this right from the get go. Press for proper investigations…Give the grieving families the best we can…THE TRUTH!

[Reply to this]
ishmael
on June 24th, 2008 12:21 pm

In My opinion, the Government of Guyana has FAILED to protect eight more of its citizens, two of which were my good friends from Rose Hall Town.

When are the citizens of Guyana going to stand up, and face the Government of Guyana, and demand answers for these eight murders, write letters, and send emails to your MPs., and to the head of the Police Department, not for-getting the President, demanding answers, and let them know that you are raging MAD.

What makes me so up set is that the Government rules like it is a one party state, is like they can do what ever they feel like, and you the CITIZENS do not have any rights to question, well my sisters and brothers of Guyana, the only reason what the Government can do that. It is because you aloud them to do it to you.

[Reply to this]
dinks77
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 2:20 pm:
wow glad to find someone that knows whiteboy and berry i was lucky to know dax too

[Reply to this]
stone80
on June 24th, 2008 12:23 pm

Why didn’t Mr.Arokium try to get his men out of this area after he heard about this operation,if he knew his camp is ONLY 10 miles from christmas falls.why wait so long to get in contact with his men.some fishy business here!!!!!

[Reply to this]
GT_BANA
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 12:40 pm:
That’s another question I would ask.

[Reply to this]
Alli
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 12:48 pm:
If one is to use your analogy then all Guyanese in Guyana should seek refuge outside of the country, since no one is safe on Guyana’s soil anymore.

[Reply to this]
gtbeat
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 5:30 pm:
Dude you need to chill out , you lack objectivity.

foreveryoung
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 1:03 pm:
well as it is reported. June 6 police hunted the men. Mr. Arokium says he heard from his men June 14. I belive fine man and his gang was long gone well b4 june 14 and besides with JS or police in the area you would think there would be protection.

[Reply to this]
AFINAM
on June 24th, 2008 12:42 pm

TWO PEOPLE KNEW ABOUT THESE MURDERS EVEN BEFORE IT WAS REPORTED TO THE POLICE OR TO THE MEDIA.

1) A woman who called Arokium and said it was the JS
2) A man would also called Arokium to reinforce that these killings were done by the JS.

It is only because these two people acted together to blame the JS that has created the situatio nin which Arokium was not able to TRUST the police or JS.

We want to know how these people knew before everyone else about these killling had happened? Unless they played a part in these killings?

Then there is the point about them phoning Arokium? This mean they were aware of those who were killed and that they had access to Arokium telephone number. HOW? And, WHY? WHEN?

UNLESS THEY SAW THE BODIES THEMSELVES THEY COULD NEVER SAY WHO WAS KILLED BECAUSE THE BODIES WERE BURNT.

How does a woman and a man know who was killed when the bodies were burnt?

[Reply to this]
stone80
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 1:36 pm:
ah ha more good questions.I think they said when the gunmen stopped the mini bus and rob them,the gun men told the occupants that the JC had killed these ppl.It is getting confusing with so many story telling.

[Reply to this]
AFINAM
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 2:49 pm:
I AM MORE CONCERN ABOUT THE WOMAN AND MAN WHO CALLED AROKIUM……….AND HOW DOES THE GUNMEN KNEW WHO WERE KILLED AT THE CAMP? And, why did tell say it was the JS?

WHERE DID THEY GET THE NUMBER FROM.

ALSO, killed by sledge hammer suggest premeaditation?

GT_BANA
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 2:48 pm:
Like I stated, that woman needs to be picked up and question. Her source or sources needs to be identified and questioned as well. Great points AFINAM.

[Reply to this]
pepie
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 3:21 pm:
Good Questions…and more questions

We need to find those two individuals and fast…

[Reply to this]
AFINAM
on June 24th, 2008 12:49 pm

AS WELL AS, LINDO VALLEY is in a remote place…WHAT were they doing at LIndo Valley….where thay needed to be to see who was killed and by whom (for them to blame the JS).

[Reply to this]
pepie
on June 24th, 2008 12:56 pm

We need a search team to search this area because they might be more bodies within 40 sq miles of christmas falls. Only god knows who else is shot, hammered, burnt out there. We need to check that area fine and account for every soul that was present at the period 27May - 22nd June.

[Reply to this]
ed
on June 24th, 2008 1:11 pm

this is sad about these men. but how come these comments seem to be so conculsive, why don’t the security system in guyana seek some of you guy’s knowledge you all seem to be the expert.

[Reply to this]
baddiss
on June 24th, 2008 1:12 pm

Once again the police firing before thinking. If you remember Yohance Douglas killing when they fired without asking questions. They thought it was fineman and they opened fire how more stupid can they get. Anyone with even little sense would know if fineman killed these people he would not have tried to cover up anything by burning bodies. Think people think!!!

[Reply to this]
bluegrass
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 6:38 pm:
they shoot, not a hammer.

[Reply to this]
Uncle
on June 24th, 2008 1:34 pm

I think you guys are also forgetting the $50 Million reward. Think about it, these miners were bustin’ their tail day in and day out to earn a living. From Fineman’s point of view, these miners could inform the police of his location just to get their hands on the reward. The jungle is an isolated place, and the need for food, medicine, etc -and let’s not forget what the miners might have had; gold, diamonds, or whatever precious metals - would make a man want to commit murder. Now imagine what can be done by men who’ve already carried out so many cold blooded killings on innocent people. Like a lot of you said before, who was the woman that called Arokium? Who was the man that called Arokium? The police now have to contact GT&T, or Digicel and get their hands on the phone records. Oh, and another thing, can we really be sure that Mr. Arokium last contacted the miners on the date he said he did? We are humans and sometimes our memory doesn’t serve us the way we expect it to. Does Mr. Arokium have it documented that he did in fact speak to the miners on those exact dates?

A lot of folks in here seem to be making the criminals out to be innocent and the Joint Services out to be the villains. Very Interesting.

[Reply to this]
pepie
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 3:37 pm:
There are not innocent and believe me Mr. Arokium have no diary with the records of contacts made to his employees. What do you think this guy have a call center or something. What we are goin on here is what the police told us from the 6th june todate and their reports have alot of wholes in it. I keep saying this we all want fine man captured, pass through the courts and the hang but what we don’t want is for someone to be getting away with murder while we blaming fineman. The only to ensure that this doesn’t happen is a proper investigation and thats where the problem is. who is going to do it? because Guyanese have lost trust in thse institutions that are there to protect them.

[Reply to this]
balooke
on June 24th, 2008 1:47 pm

Rumour and gossip rule the roost. In typical Guyanese fashion, many outrageous “theories” abound in these posts vilifying the Joint Services with not one shred of evidence or the facts in hand by the posters. “He said, she said.”
Where was OJ during this period?

[Reply to this]
Natalie
on June 24th, 2008 1:48 pm

My condolences to the families who lost their loved ones.

[Reply to this]
ptownmami90
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 9:38 pm:
thank you. Still cant believe that someone in their right mind would do such thing to my cousin and his co workers. They wil pay for this!{cries}

[Reply to this]
dinks77
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 2:27 pm:
i know alot of the cousins who could this be, my symphaty to you sad to hear about whiteboy and dax, i am dying to get to the truth of this may god show us the way
AFINAM
on June 24th, 2008 2:05 pm

What about the use of hammers on the miners?

This is not just an accidental killing by the police or JS.

There is no need for Fineman to burn the bodies as the smoke and smell would be seen by the JS who were in the area hunting Fineman.

The man and woman who called Arokium knew BEFORE everyone else that these people were killed.

HOW?

They knew who was killed as well even when the bodies was burned. They had to, to be able to telephone Arokium?

Had they just stumbled on the bodies they would not know who was killed.

Even IF they just guess, where did they get the telephone number from for Arokium? Remember, these are suppose to be two people who acted separately.

What you have here is a case of a woman saying the JS killed the miners then another separate caller vouching for the woman by saying as well that the JS killed them.

IN Arokium position, most people would then not trust the police or the JS.

THE calls acheived the desired effects of creating distrust in Guyana and in Arokium.
No one is going to now convince Arokium that the JS was not involved. As far as he is concerned he VERIFIED the information because it came from two sources.

MY QUESTION STANDS:
How did this woman and man knew who was killed BEFORE everyone else including the Media?

WHY?

[Reply to this]
rk
In reply to the above comment on June 24th, 2008 3:04 pm:
Interesting Observation indeed!!!

A man and a woman not only knew Mr Arokium phone number, they also knew that the JS [ men in uniform - could have been FineMan] sh

RSS | Guyana's No. 1 Independent Daily | Register | Log in

Men killed at mining camp ‘beaten with hammers’, sources say. –Joint Services deny involvement

Tortured

‘Unimaginable and unthinkable’

When?

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