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Mining camp murders… All signs point to ‘Fineman’ -Greene

Police Commissioner, Henry Greene yesterday said that all leads are pointing to Rondell Rawlins’ criminal gang as the perpetrators of the slaying of eight miners at a diamond mining camp in the hinterland.

Greene, speaking for the first time on the issue told a media conference at his office that investigators have since done a lot of work and many things were coming to the fore. “Our investigation so far has not led us away from believing that the men were killed by ‘Fineman’ and his gang,” Greene declared.

Leonard Arokium, the owner of the camp, located at Lindo Creek on the Berbice River has accused the military of carrying out the attack on the eight miners whose burnt bodies were discovered on Saturday, but Greene yesterday said that the miner was not very forthcoming with information and he mentioned that Arokium is yet to answer why he made several stops before reporting the discovery of the dead miners to the police. Arokium could not be reached for a comment on the issues raised by Greene yesterday. The Joint Services had refuted Arokium’s claims that the miners were killed by members of the military saying it was unimaginable and unthinkable and on Wednesday it issued a press release, stating that four spent shells retrieved from the Lindo Creek site matched shells recovered from previous skirmishes involving Rawlins and his gang.

Yesterday the joint services were still scouring the jungle for the rest of the gunmen who escaped with Rawlins during the initial confrontation on June 6 at Christmas Falls.

In a statement yesterday the joint services said that acting on information received, during Wednesday ranks recovered an AK 47 rifle along with ammunition and articles which were dug up at a location at Ituni. The statement said 324, 7.62 x 39 rounds, four magazines for the rifle, five 20-gauge cartridges, two 9mm rounds, one 40mm round, one camouflage pouch and one green canvas tarpaulin were also recovered.

Meanwhile, Greene told reporters that the security forces were still in the jungle, declaring that from all accounts Rawlins and men are still trapped and would be caught.

The Joint Services had maintained since June 6 – following the police attack on the Rawlins camp at Christmas Falls - that the gunmen were trapped in the jungle.

They have since not explained how the men were still able to move 90 miles to the Aroaima trail one week later where they hijacked a busload of passengers. Two of the gunmen, Julius Chung and Cecil Ramcharran were shot dead the same day at Goat Farm.

President Bharrat Jagdeo on Wednesday told a press conference that he would ensure that a full investigation was conducted into the matter, announcing that his administration has since requested from the US government assistance in forensic pathology to examine the remains of the miners skulls and bones which were wrapped in a tarpaulin and left in a heap at the camp.

Greene yesterday could not say exactly when the miners might have been killed, although indicating that based upon information received they would have been slaughtered before June 16, the day the gunmen hijacked the bus on the Aroaima trail. Asked whether members of the joint services are being investigated for their alleged involvement in the killing of the miners, Greene said two joint services teams that were in the area had been questioned. He said too that a Brazilian operating a mining concession in the area was also questioned as well as a security guard of the mining site. “At this point we are still waiting to question two soldiers who were stationed at the Unamco Gate…we are searching for them,” Greene said. Arokium had told members of the media that some of the miners had mingled with the soldiers and they might have shared food at some point.

Warnings

On the issue of the miners being warned to leave the area following the June 6 attack at Christmas Falls, Greene asserted that he was aware of this being done. “We knew people were in the area doing logging and mining and the relevant ministries issued warnings for them to leave,” the acting Police Chief said. He said whether the men heard the announcement but refused to leave or did not hear the warning at all was still an issue to be cleared up. Greene said what was clear was that Arokium knew about the joint services activities in the area as he had enquired from a policewoman at Kwakwani when it was safe for him to travel to the area.

There had been speculation that there might have been some collusion between the miners and the criminals, but Greene refused to speculate on the matter.

Some observers believe that there are still many unanswered questions which the security forces have not addressed and the fact that some have accused them of executing such a heinous crime required an independent commission of inquiry (CI). Jagdeo told the media on Wednesday that he had seen a letter from AFC leader Raphael Trotman requesting a CI into the matter. He said while he had not decided whether they would go the route of a CI, if one is to be done it would have to include the other recent massacres to determine whether there was any political involvement. “I have not decided whether a Commission of Inquiry is the best vehicle, but we think that external expertise at this time is the best route to go,” Jagdeo asserted.

Senior joint services officials have admitted that there were a number of outstanding questions to be answered. Stabroek News had been told that lawmen who visited the Lindo Creek camp site found evidence of some of the miners being tortured. This newspaper has been informed that one of the skulls found at the location had an impression suggesting that the person was beaten in the head. According to information reaching Stabroek News, on arrival at the camp all the lawmen found were burnt bones. Reports are that the camp site has been sealed off to facilitate the work of the US forensic expert.

The eight men who were murdered are Nigel Torres, Bonny Harry, Cecil Arokium, Lancelot Lee, Horace Drakes, Dax Arokium, Clifton Young and Compton Speirs.

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92 Responses to “Mining camp murders… All signs point to ‘Fineman’ -Greene”

amen-ra
on June 27th, 2008 5:52 am

Finally we hear from the acting commissioner, and now according to their investigation all leads to fineman and his gang, but i still believe it wasn’t fineman and his gang, they may try to twist it in their favour because they don’t know who it is so blame every thing on fineman.

[Reply to this]
Raj
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 10:20 am:
Two days ago Police evidence said it was not Fineman’s gang. Greene came out and said it is. The paper said: Asked whether members of the joint services are being investigated for their alleged involvement in the killing of the miners, Greene said two joint services teams that were in the area had been questioned. He said too that a Brazilian operating a mining concession in the area was also questioned as well as a security guard of the mining site. “At this point we are still waiting to question two soldiers who were stationed at the Unamco Gate…we are searching for them,”

Greene is as transparent as day!!!

[Reply to this]
BOEING777
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 2:13 pm:
I agree… Greene has to say these things… retirement is imminent…. he needs his paltry pension. The illusions will continue.

ms guyana
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 5:58 pm:
green is ‘declaring that from all accounts Rawlins and men are still trapped and would be caught.’
but they committing more crimes while surrounded!

[Reply to this]
DAFA 75
on June 27th, 2008 6:09 am

All signs point to fine man, Really. Arokium is yet to answer why he made several stops before reporting the discovery of the dead miners to the police. Am I reading this right, the head of the police saying this. The man just lost his son, his brother, in the most horrfic way, and he is a suspect, has to account for his wereabouts. I am really trying to remain objective here, but this is such crap. All the weapons issued to the JS during the operation, should be checked, see if any missing, how much rounds were issued to the ranks. Do a proper investigation, does the police chief really think the public trusts him. or his puppet masters.

The police has lost all respect of the public, thats why Mr Arokium took so long If you afraid of the police and the army , who are you going to turn to.

I ask a question who in guyana thinks that Mr Arokium is incorrect in his belief that the JS killed his son.

[Reply to this]
Cheryl
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 1:13 pm:
Yes!, if some in here had read my blog, I had stated that Mr. Arokium needs to be questioned again and again, coupled with the female and male that made those cell phone calls.

I also questioned in one of my blogs, the reason for the camp owner (Mr. Arokium,) not calling the police first, and just decided to make rounds and enter the camp.

This is the same questions the Commissioner Mr. Henry Greene is asking, he (the Commissioner) also stated that” Mr. Arokium is not forth coming.”

I also mentioned the other miners in another camp, (The Brazilian,) who should be questioned also.

Seems that the miners in Mr. Arokium’s employment was very friendly to others, giving them food etc:, this friendlyness, drinking and eating with someone, has caused the miners to let their gloves down.

When u let your gloves down, you can be taken advantage of, Guyanese are known to be friendly people who shares what ever they have and at times, becomes way too friendly, they may have spoken to someone how much gold they mined.

It would all come out later.

[Reply to this]
Cheryl
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 1:16 pm:
I stated questions before, SN decided not to print it, which, after thought, SN was right, as it stands, everyone are suspects until the saga unfolds and the criminals are caught.

[Reply to this]
jbrownboy14
on June 27th, 2008 6:32 am

The head of the defence board seem to have different intelligence from the president the Roger Khan surveillance equipment saga is an epic example, how much credibility does the COP intelligence trapped in the conclusion hereafter ”
Mining camp murders… All signs point to ‘Fineman’ -Greene

Police Commissioner, Henry Greene yesterday said that all leads are pointing to Rondell Rawlins’ criminal gang as the perpetrators of the slaying of eight miners at a diamond mining camp in the hinterland.”

[Reply to this]
Cheryl
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 1:19 pm:
In one report, it was stated that one of the bullets matched a solider, now it’s pointing again to fineman, fineman was gone, what’s wrong with the Commissioner’s brain.

[Reply to this]
RoshMan
on June 27th, 2008 7:05 am

All I can say is that Commissioner Greene must indeed be shameless to say something like this to the Guyanese people.

[Reply to this]
cochore
on June 27th, 2008 7:26 am

Chief of police Mr Greene….Oh yea! you’re just acting right?…..Banna ya need betta lines man….

[Reply to this]
BOEING777
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 2:14 pm:
Didn’t you notice everyone under this regime is ‘acting’… Soon they can make a movie with all the actors… Guyanawood in the making ha ha ha.

[Reply to this]
GT_BANA
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 7:58 pm:
hahahah…..Good one.
Ricky
on June 27th, 2008 7:37 am

Wasn’t there a shoot out at the Camp where alledgedly Fineman and others were camping? What about those Shells from that scene? Weren’t they collected to be analysed to see what weapons “Fineman” team had when they made their escape and if those weapons were used to execute any previous crime?

We have not yet had a reports on those Shells, can the authorities please answer these questions and provide the results?

[Reply to this]
justice4all
on June 27th, 2008 7:46 am

Baloney!!!!. The police match shells conveniently. They cannot match the shells that killed Ronald Waddell, or Marcyn King, or the hundreds of balck youth shot down in cold blood. But they can always come up with a match when the other evidence and circumstances parallel those murders they are uninterested in solving.

Nothing that comes out of this administration or its agencies should be given an ounce of credibility. An administration that is uninterested in over 200 illegal killings cannot be trusted to provide truthful accounts of what is going on in Guyana.

[Reply to this]
kmatt
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 11:27 am:
justice 4all

You are so right…Is Mr. Green trying to belittle our intellingence.. This is the most BS i have ever heard… and to suspect fineman and his gang are still in the jungle..MR. GREEN! WHAT EVIDENCE HAS ANYONE PROVIDED THAT GIVES CREDIBILITY, THAT FINEMAN AND HIS GANG WAS EVER PRESENT AT THE FALLS…THE STUPIDITY OF THIS ADMINISTRATION IS KILLING ME..

Mr. green are u trying to discredit Mr Arokium to make it seem like he is indenial?
THE NERVE AND ODOSITY OF THIS ADMINISTRATION!

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE HAVE A PETITION DRIVE TO GET RID OF THIS ADMINISTRATION. SORRY TO SAY !BUT WE HAVE A BUNCH OF IMCOMPETENT PEOPLE RUNNING THIS COUNTRY.. to state litely..

[Reply to this]
GT_BANA
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 11:46 am:
I agree with you Kmatt. There is a possibilty Fineman and his gang was never at christmas falls to begin with. They claim to have a diary that was found belonging to him but it was never in the photo with all the other items. Strange isn’t it??

gtagricola
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 10:19 pm:
i agree with ur comment

BOEING777
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 10:48 pm:
This whole cooked-up nonsense from this regime is so appaling to say the least. Where do these inept, visionless people come up with such utter nonsense. They really believe the lies and illusions they are trying to pull off. Give the people some credit — jeeze.

owenon123
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 1:14 pm:
justic4all:

WHAT ‘JOHNNY COMES LATE’ SAID? “ALL SIGNS POINT TO ‘FINEMAN’ –GREENE.”

I’LL TELL YOU THIS I BELIEVE STABROEK NEWS REPORT ON THE ‘BALLISTICS RESULTS.’ SORRY MR. GREENE YOU’RE TOO LATE ON THIS ONE. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL THIS TIME?

INTERESTING POINT YOU MADE ‘JUSTIC4ALL’ THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID AS FOLLOWS:

“THEY CANNOT MATCH THE SHELLS THAT KILLED RONALDWADDEL, OR MARCYN KING.” DO YOU HAVE ANY ANSWER FOR THIS SENTENCE MR. GREENE?

BY THE WAY, DON’T Y’ALL KNOW THAT THE ‘EAGLE HAS LANDED ON MR. GREENE’S TURF. OH YEA HE’S ON THE USA ‘REVOKE VISA BLACK LIST.’ NO DOUBT UNCLE SAM’S RADAR IS ON HIM AND OTHER OFFICIALS OF THE GOVERNMENT.

I DO NOT BELIEVE NOT ONE WORD MR. GREENE SAID IN THIS MATTER AND NEITHER DO THE MAJORITY OF BLOGGERS HERE BELIEVE MR. GREENE ON THIS.

[Reply to this]
BOEING777
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 10:51 pm:
Ha, ha, ha… I like the term “Johnny comes late” that’s very fitting for all the mouth organs of this regime.
Everything they do is late!!! Fineman is already out of the country, ha ha ha.

Cheryl
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 1:23 pm:
Darn right, we cannot trust anyone now.

Mr. Commissioner, do ur job, just find these criminials, keep ur officers from killing them, “Dead men tells no tales,” we need answers, and we need them now.

[Reply to this]
billp
on June 27th, 2008 7:49 am

What else is new all criminal activities now in Guyana points out to fineman. It’s all ” JIMMYCOCK AND RAM GOAT STORY”

[Reply to this]
sandy
on June 27th, 2008 7:55 am

I hate to say this, but I think it’s just a matter of time before attempts are made to blame or smear Mr. Arokium, and maybe even the victims themselves. It’s an age-old tactic, and on we should prepare for.

[Reply to this]
GTgirle
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 11:06 am:
Of course that’s why they’re going to do… If they can’t pin it on Fineman and his gang. It so funny that any crime committed they try to link it to him, I mean he must have clones running around Guyana. Because it seems he’s every where all the damn time. What a fricking joke the Guyanese Government is…

[Reply to this]
Cheryl
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 1:25 pm:
How can we be sure that fineman isn’t already dead.
Caribbeanqueen
on June 27th, 2008 8:01 am

It’s Clifton WOng and not Young. Stabroek news need to revise their spelling before publishing it.
Secondly has any News agency visited the site.
Has the government or any independent agency taken any photgraphs to show the relatives what positions their love one were place.
Why has it taken a whole week for Mr. Greene to give his illustrous speech.

[Reply to this]
dinks77
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 8:54 pm:
thank you ms queen the press should do some investigation and dont depend on hearsay

[Reply to this]
t_charmb5
on June 27th, 2008 8:07 am

These accusations are becoming not a welcome site for my family. Why is it taking the Guyana police force slow long to find a man. How is the people of these families going to get any satisfaction. Mr. Greene only coming forward now to tell us about signs pointing to this gang. Come on you people need to wake up and start searching for the truth. I am an Arokium and this is not sitting well with me and I need answers, because it will be my next step to call on my government to go and find some answers. Because everyday I read the news on the web, it is getting bizarre reading all these accusations. I want to know who killed my Uncle (Cecil) and my cousin (Dax) and the rest of the miners; who were just there trying to make a living. How could any human being killed people like that.; they must be an animal. President Jagedo help the people of Guyana comes to terms with this crime. I think this is one time you do need to do your job and doing to best you can for the people of guyana, because you are surely not acting like a President who want answers.

[Reply to this]
dinks77
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 8:58 pm:
i know the arokuims my symphaty to you and the rest of your family i was living just four houses away

[Reply to this]
vatvic
on June 27th, 2008 8:30 am

Everybody in Class who remember this song please raise your hands!
“Teacher Percy say if yuh tell a lie yuh …..”

Here’s a Clue…”Jus show me the corner weh de fella pass, an I could mek the suit. Dat is tailor!…”

[Reply to this]
Alicia
on June 27th, 2008 8:45 am

What else are they going to say?

[Reply to this]
Alicia
on June 27th, 2008 8:47 am

Whatever you do, don’t put the blame on you…blame it on the rain that is falling falling…blame it on the stars that shine at night…

[Reply to this]
rupman
on June 27th, 2008 8:47 am

Can GFC & GGMC say if they were contacted about warning loggers and miners in the Christmas Falls/Parish Peak area about Fineman’s possible presence in the area?
And, did they agencies make contact with the people in the area?
Normally, when the Police force make statements linking “Fineman’ to crime scenes they usually state that certain shells were found which link the gang to the crime scene.
Mr Greene’s statements shows a surprising lack of evidence to link the crime to its alleged perpetrators. So what evidence is the Commisioner of Police using?
What about the soldier who told Mr Wong (Arokium’s guide) that one of the shells found on the site matched those used by the army? (SN 26/6)Any further investigation was done on this lead?

[Reply to this]
Guyanese4life
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 9:20 am:
here is my devil’s advocate take supporting Greene.

Fineman knows about the camp and threatens the miners not to give information about their whereabouts in Christmas Falls. They hid weapons all along the trail and in the camp itself. After Christmas Falls shootout, they go to the mining camp which is hard to find from obvious reports and took refuge there. After doing that they killed the men because they thought the were betrayed and knowing that the JS would have gone deeper into the Jungle were not afraid to light the fire and burn all the men. After the burning around the 12th or 13th they decided to start walking, made the raft and float across the river once, then walked for three days before making it to the main road and hijacking the bus.

They conveniently leave 4 shells there so the police can find their evidence that is them since the feel they are going to die anyway so it is best they kill everyone in sight. Yet they do not kill the bus full of people or the one man at the camp.

Should I go on….

[Reply to this]
BADLALL
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 10:22 am:
They are taking the easy way out by blaming fineman. Mr Greene should say which “TOP COP” called Arokium and told him he is wasting the Police’s time. The next murder in America will be blamed on fineman will the top cop go there to investigate it.

[Reply to this]
Cheryl
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 1:38 pm:
Rupman!, darn right, how can it go back to fineman now, like I said, and the Commissioner knows this for a fact, Guyanese are not ***holes, we can think, so find the men Commissioner, we don’t need anymore is finemanm, skinnyman nor fatman, the more time u take to talk junk, the more the men are moving away, come off your behind and go also, I pay taxes for land in Guyana still, some of my monies are going into your pockets, do ur job, more actions, less fish mouth talk.

[Reply to this]
rdman
on June 27th, 2008 8:52 am

Commissioner Henry Green have to say that because he is representing the police,i am waiting until the U.S expert present his findings, then we would know the truth.But i know the evidence has already been tampered with,so it won’t make much sense,and even if its not fineman the blame would still be put on him,lets wait and see what happens.

[Reply to this]
caprice59
on June 27th, 2008 9:06 am

If there is evidence show it. The whole country would like to see same. At Christmas falls Fineman and a specific number of his cohorts were alleged to have had a shootout with the Joint Services. How much were they? Two killed at Kwakwani another shot somewhere else.How many left? What ever the number remaining confronted tortured, murdered and torched eight miners. They had a lot of time considering the Joint Services on their backs. Show us the evidence this is not nursery school stuff.
My condolences to the families.

[Reply to this]
Fulleyes
on June 27th, 2008 9:26 am

Now everything that happens in Guyana is being blamed on the so called “Fineman gang”,
I guess that fineman shot the cop on Woolford Ave, I guess fineman killed the guy that was found on the Kitty seawall, I guess he also set the house at Haslington on fire, sorry guys but everything is being blamed on him might as well pin everything on him including the flooding at Soesdyke…
I’m just saying

[Reply to this]
rk
on June 27th, 2008 9:30 am

“He said too that a Brazilian operating a mining concession in the area was also questioned as well as a security guard of the mining site. “At this point we are still waiting to question two soldiers who were stationed at the Unamco Gate…we are searching for them,”

What exactly does the above mean? Searching for your own solider???

“a press release, stating that four spent shells retrieved from the Lindo Creek site matched shells recovered from previous skirmishes involving Rawlins and his gang.”

How many shells were there exactly? I am sure not only four.

Whoever did this - JS or FineMan - it is sad that Guyana and the parents of the accused are producing these animals.

I call on the parents of these animals to be held accountable. Hats off to Mr Arokium for raising his son the right way and hats off to the other miners parents as well.

[Reply to this]
GTguru
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 11:36 am:
What non-sense are you saying, parents makes children but don’t make thier minds, I have known family who gave they children the best way of life and all they can ever want in terms of education, living, morals, etc. and in the end it all went to waste. Those kids turned out to be crap and worst than others that weren’t expose to not even 2% of what they had.

Have you stop to think that Fineman, JS or the accused parents are embarrassed, abashed, discountenanced (all those means the same, but I’m emphasizing the level of how discussed I am) like I am of my country.

[Reply to this]
rk
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 1:58 pm:
And I pose the question to you? Didn’t your parents have any influence at all on your life whether for better or for worst.

You can single out the kids that were privileged and ended up useless adults but you cannot use these isolated incidents to make current policy. In the whole scheme of things, society would be better off if parents were held accountable for their children [under 18 years old] actions, as it relates to murder and massacres.

So parents of those who were caught are now saying that their sons ran away from home 2 or 3 years ago, meanwhile that is not true as they were right in buxton all the while until recently when then had to bounce from buxton. Ohh they said, they never helped us, I gave him licks but he still went away. Ohh he is not a criminal. Most parents know what their kids are up to and it is their responsibility to stop it and if they can’t they should not have it go this far. I wonder how those mothers can sleep knowing that their seeds are responsible for the cries for other mothers just like them.

I ask, how many more parents out there are missing sons. Believe me, you start disciplining the parents of the ones that were caught and the other parents would soon start speaking up…Ohh x, y or z ran away from home 1 year ago, I think he is with the rest of those, yes, they will speak. Tell me where is all of this money they steal going. I am sure they have bank accounts. You never hear them being caught with millions of dollars on them.

Cheryl
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 1:50 pm:
RK!, stop saying junk, parents are not to be blamed, u make them, not their minds, some kids come from very decent parent/s, they have a mind of their own, they choose to become killers for the almighty dollar, also the drugs that they use up, be real

[Reply to this]
rk
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 2:15 pm:
I would hate to give you a crash course in psychology but you asked for it. Educate yourself. The believe is taken from a study at Duke University.

Students whose parents are involved in their schooling have higher career and educational goals, according to a new Duke University study of middle- and high-schoolers.

And parents’ influence on how their children think about the future and perform in school continues through adolescence, according to the study, which followed nearly 500 black and white children from seventh through 11th grades.

“Some previous research has indicated that parents’ involvement isn’t that significant as children move into adolescence,” said Nancy E. Hill, associate professor of social psychology at Duke. “But our research shows that parents do matter, especially in adolescence, when children decide whether or not they want to go to college and begin thinking about what jobs they’d like to have as adults.”

The study also found that the effect of parental involvement varied depending on the race and educational achievement of the parents.

The research was conducted by Hill and Duke colleagues Domini R. Catellino, Jennifer E. Lansford and Kenneth A. Dodge; Patrick Nowlin and John E. Bates at Indiana University: and Gregory S. Pettit at Auburn University. It will appear in the September/October issue of “Child Development,” the flagship journal of the Society for Research in Child Development.

The researchers measured how often parents visited their children’s schools and how comfortable teachers felt talking to the parents. They also asked students whether their parents helped them choose classes, kept tabs on their school performance and talked to them about school work.

Though higher levels of parental involvement correlated across the board with increased aspirations among their children, better-educated parents made a bigger difference in school performance than did less-educated parents.

One possible reason for this discrepancy is that parents who have not gone to college may not understand the long-term implications of decisions made as early as seventh grade, Hill said.

“Though they may want their children to attend college, they may not understand that students need to take advanced courses as early as middle school to achieve that goal, for example,” she said. “Parents’ knowledge about how to be involved is what matters.”

The study also indicated that parental involvement makes more of a difference in school success for African-American students.

For many of these families, parents are needed to make a bigger difference in their children’s success in school because their children may be growing up in circumstances that undermine academic success. For example, the African-American families studied were generally less affluent than the white families, she said.

For white families, the reverse is often the case: Parental involvement is less salient because many white children have more advantages, she said.

Whatever their background, parents should stay involved in their children’s schooling through the high school years, the study indicates.

“In order for children to reach their potential, they need their parents as informed advocates,” Hill said.

rk
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 2:42 pm:
Cheryl - your statement of “u make them, not their minds,” is completely false.

caprice59
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 10:59 pm:
Never been to University but I heard of a word called NURTURE. Lets check for spellin and meaning it may help.

gtagricola
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 10:23 pm:
such ignorance

[Reply to this]
Voice-Max
on June 27th, 2008 9:42 am

Actually, this does seem possible, maybe even probable, that the “fine-people” gang committed the murders.

[Reply to this]
deflect
on June 27th, 2008 10:05 am

Isn’t it strange that after it was reported in a section of the media that shells found at the Lindo Creek camp site did not match those used by Fineman and his gang that the commissioner of police could now, days after this report, without refuting this first report, come out with different findings? Is he in fact now refuting this report, or should his remarks be interpreted as referring to additional shells found at the site which would indicate a confrontational scenario? This thing stinks to high heaven.

[Reply to this]
Guy99
on June 27th, 2008 10:11 am

I am tired of this govt blaming fineman for everything. The GPF is very incompetent and do not take the time to investigate a crime. Whoever is wanted by the police, this is the person who usually gets blame. I guess it is asking too much for the police to examine the guns used by the JS.

[Reply to this]
Alli
on June 27th, 2008 10:15 am

Henry Greene will be selling the Berbice Bridge later today. Interested Guyanese please put in your bid early…. its a deal you will be getting the Demerara Bridge for free.

[Reply to this]
LoveGT4Real
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 3:38 pm:
Alli,
As an added bonus I am thinking that they should throw in most of the senior police officers in that package, along with a few government ministers and those high up in the PNCR group, as they have one thing in common ………………………….”gross incompetence”.

[Reply to this]
Alli
on June 27th, 2008 10:16 am

Hear again the circus is in town Guyanese don’t miss the show

[Reply to this]
BOEING777
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 2:32 pm:
LOL, get your popcorn and cola and take a seat up front. HA HA HA.

[Reply to this]
bvbocan
on June 27th, 2008 10:23 am

AH HA! See… I knew it was “Fineman” who committed the crime [sarcasm].

And to think that people accused the commissioner of producing Gorilla Justice [no pun intended].

Fineman is responsible for all the crimes in Guyana- of that, I’m sure [grin].

[Reply to this]
gtmassive
on June 27th, 2008 10:30 am

I don’t believe they recovered an AK 47 that was buried. At this point and time fineman doesn’t have “a care in this world” - why would he take the time to bury a rifle?

It was reported fineman’s gang only had two guns when they got away from the JS. Since they are believed to have done the killings of the miners and took the time to bury a gun, it means the gang only have one gun remaining. It should be easy for the gang to be taken out, since they are believed to still be there and two or three were killed and one captured.

[Reply to this]
Guyanese4life
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 11:28 am:
they actually have negative one gun…since they found the two other guys killed with two guns and a whole lot of ammunition.

How can these guys fetch so much ammunition guns, food stuff, supplies etc…its been 21 days and counting…impossible….the JS knew nothing

[Reply to this]
springs
on June 27th, 2008 10:31 am

The comments from Mr. Greene are welcome , however I am a little concerned about the two soliders who they are trying to locate to question. Are they alive? Can the army give the police the where about of the two soliders? Where the soliders and police firearms tested to find out if the guns were used on the miners. The last time the decease miners made contact with their families or friends or their employer.

There is no need for an enquiry as yet a corners inquest is needed to determine how the miners met there death and for the corners to determine who is the actual perpretrator of the crime.

[Reply to this]
Guyanese4life
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 3:07 pm:
From Mr. Greene’s speech you get the impression that something may happen to Mr. Arokium and Mr. Bynoe. Since he spoke about Fineman’s love for revenge and how he treats betrayal.

If one were to end up dead (God forbid) then guess who gets the blame….Fineman.

The police never actively sought Mr. Bynoe, since he walks around Linden and has businesses operating in Linden.

[Reply to this]
justice4all
In reply to the above comment on June 28th, 2008 8:45 am:
There is need for an inquiry. A coroners inquiry in Guyana today is like a Grand Jury investigation. The presenters and adjudicators are all part of the Government assembley.

Seriously guys, you all read the words that are said to have emanated from Oliver Hinckson. The Government charges him with sedition for those words. Thise words were no different in context from the writings of Freddie Kissoon and others. But Oliver Hinkson is charged with Sedition for them.

Why should any of us place any faith in the integrity of any judicial or law enforcent inquiry in Guyana. The whole caboodle makes the activities of Don Corleone’s mafia family look like a sunday school bible class.

[Reply to this]
darkchild
on June 27th, 2008 10:32 am

THIS IS SUCH A SHAME…FOR HEAD OF THE POLICE FORCE …THE COMMISSIONER IS OUT OF SHAPE AND OUT OF TOUCH..HE IS TOO BUSY THROWING BIRTHDAY PARTIES FOR HIMSELF
I BET FINEMAN WAS THERE TO LET OUT JERMAINE SKINNY TOO……HE SHOULD BE FIRED…THEN AGAIN ALL THE COMMISSIONER IS DOING IS ACTING…
DON’T WORRY…ALL OF THEM WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THIER ACTIONS….THEY DON’T KNOW ABOUT ROGER KHAN OR THE MURDERS….OR ANYTHING ELSE BUT FINEMAN AND BUXTON…..WHAT A SHAME BUT GUYANESE PEOPLE HAVE FAITH….THEY WILL SERVE TIME IN JAIL…IF ALL THESE PPL WHO COMMIT AND SUPPORT CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY THINK THAT THEY WILL RUN AND HIDE IN BIG COUNTRIES AND FADE AWAY IN THE SUNSET….THINK AGAIN…WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT THE BIGGER COUNTRIES KNOW AND DEPORT THEM..WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT JUSTICE IS SERVED…WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT THEY CANNOT REST OR SLEEP KNOWING THAT THE FBI/CIA/CSIS/RCMP/SCOTLANDYARD/MI5 WILL HELP IN HUNTING THEM DOWN JUST LIKE THE OLD NAZI GENERALS ARE HUNTED DOWN AND BROUGH TO JUSTICE

[Reply to this]
SHATTA
on June 27th, 2008 10:32 am

MR GREENE I THINK U SHOULD REMEMBER 3 THINGS.

1..US VISA REVOKES
2..U AN I KNOW THAT U WILL NOT MAKE COMMISIONER
3..200+23+8 +++++++++PEOPLE WERE KILLED ON YOUR WATCH NOT FORGETTING OUR OFFICER IN BLUE AND BLACK

MY RESQUEST TO U IS THAT SHOULD FOLLOW ROGER LUNCHEON AND LET THE PRESIDENT COME UP WITH THE ANSWERS

[Reply to this]
bvbocan
In reply to the above comment on June 28th, 2008 5:27 am:
At the opportune time, the current crime chief, will be named commissioner after Green is resigned. The crime chief along with others were strategically placed in the Army and Police to replace the top brasses.

[Reply to this]
optimistic pessimist
on June 27th, 2008 10:56 am

I know dat I is only a pessimist (albeit an optimistic one ) but looky-here, it seems to me that failing all other internationally accepted methods of crime detection and suppression, the GPF main ace-in-the-hole is matching shell castings and thereby tying suspects to crime scenes.

Personally I see two main problems with that way of thinking if you suppose, like the police department seems to be doing, that shell castings is a sure-fire way to place certain criminals at scenes of crimes:
1. Obviously you are making a supposition that criminals all personally own and use their own guns exclusively. Seems that the word on the street is that there are guns out there for hire but of course our GPF conveniently chooses to ignore this fact.
2. This is a particularly convenient way (though not necessarily scientific) for the police force to finger certain criminals as having committed certain crimes. What is to stop them from placing previously obtained/retrieved shell castings at fresh crime scenes just so that they can make these claims… their above reproach principles and demonstrated actions???

Neither of these two points can stand on their own. It is pathetic and juvenile to keep matching shell castings (supposedly) and matching criminals to crimes and giving public statements on these suppositions without any credible supporting scientific evidence.

But then again this is Guyana, what am I thinking bannas?

[Reply to this]
pelican_p
on June 27th, 2008 11:12 am

For all those whose opinions are that it was done by the JS , I would like to ask them to check the Kaieteurnews report on this matter. All crimes / murders committed by the Fineman Gang carries his ’signature’. I had posted earlier that this miners” massacre will cause the blame to be put on the JS. Seems that I was correct.

These killings seems to be directed . The KN report also mentioned Bynoe !! Is there a connection here ???

[Reply to this]
justice4all
In reply to the above comment on June 28th, 2008 8:52 am:
The threat from Fineman against Robert Persaud came from an IP owned by Kaieteurnews. Give me a break. The credibility of the kaieteurnews is only a mite above that of that rag the Chronicle. It has three, you hear, three anonymous columnist sycophanting on behalf of the PPP. Give us a break and peddle that reasoning to the Chronicle family where the absurd and the ludicrous is what passes for news.

[Reply to this]
raisinghell
on June 27th, 2008 11:35 am

question Mr Greene : did fineman shoot the cop on woolford ave ?

[Reply to this]
raisinghell
on June 27th, 2008 11:39 am

Can you people remember when Mr Greene was actually out the force and why ? he was brought back by then commissioner Laurie Lewis. do research people…

[Reply to this]
BADLALL
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 2:19 pm:
INTERNAL CHARGES INVOLVING A WOMAN

[Reply to this]
BADLALL
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 2:25 pm:
AND A WORD THAT RYMES WITH DATE
Roula
on June 27th, 2008 12:15 pm

Any killing or robery in Guyana the blame goes to “Fineman”; the police force now becomes lazy to investigate because “Fineman” is the author of any killing or stealling in the land. Soon or later they would know that “Fineman” does not even exist.
By the way, I heard that the president of Guyana Mr Chung has died so who is now ruling Guyana? Anybody knows?

[Reply to this]
On3LoV3
on June 27th, 2008 12:36 pm

Its interesting to see how all the different newspapers reports are completely different.

Anyways unlike many viewers, I am nuetral on this issue because there is not enough evidence presented to prove anything on “FINEMAN” or “JS” that would go beyond resonable doubt.

[Reply to this]
Alistair
on June 27th, 2008 12:59 pm

This is incredulous. Where in the world can you get this mumbo-jumbo nonsense..”Fineman and his Gang” the perfect ALIBI. How convenient!!! This smacks at incompetence, misinformation and a deliberate attempt by the authorities to cover up their ineptness in dealing with both the Roger KHan and Fineman issues.Bearing in mind that these issues do have a COMMON LINK..
Me wish them luck buoy.

[Reply to this]
GT_BANA
on June 27th, 2008 1:33 pm

I was waiting to see how long before it was determined that Fineman and his gang are the ones who killed the miners. ARE YOU ALL SURPRISED???? All of us who have been keeping up with the news know those murders would eventually be pinned to him…lol. The law enforcement agencies have no clue or they are covering up their mistakes. Those are the only two solutions I have in regards to this event.

[Reply to this]
Twinkle Toe
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 4:27 pm:
Sometimes I am amazed to know the replies to the above article and other articles. It has been proven, though lately, that Fineman boasted to the highjacked bus driver that he committed the crime on the Miners. The writer of this letter was certain that the Security Forces were not involved. The problem is that you writers who live Overseas make such stupid comments when you do not live here and do not know one iota of what is happening in Guyana.
Please give a reason why you do not know the enforcement agencies do not have a clue or they are covering up.

[Reply to this]
GT_BANA
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 8:16 pm:
How many murders committed by criminals that have been solved by the law enforcement agencies so far in 2008 Twinkle Toe???? We still don’t know who kidnapped and beheaded Khalamadeen, murdered Fine man sister, and also kidnapped his supposedly pregnant GF which led to the lusignan and bartica murders. Do you think they are doing a good job???? I am waiting for your response.
gtikool
on June 27th, 2008 2:07 pm

Why now Mr. Commissioner?

Are we not privileged enough to receive a min by min update after this crime was uncovered?

how many days since this story broke? last time i checked after a drive by hit one of your police station we had ballistics report the next day. what’s so special a about this instance?

common level with us

[Reply to this]
LoveGT4Real
on June 27th, 2008 2:18 pm

These comments by Mr. Green… are out-of-touch, amusing, and worthy of sympathy, to say the least.
Is this the big revelation he comes up with after almost one week of investigation?
And what on earth does he mean by statements like “All leads are pointing to Rondell Rawlings” and “many things are coming to fore”?
These types of retarded excuses should be rejected by the Guyanese people outright.
Far too many families have been ravaged by criminals in this country, and all the police ever come up with is “we are investigating”

By the way, I am still waiting for someone to explain to me how men who are still “trapped” in the interior , having earlier fled leaving behind a “cache of arms and ammunition”, were capable of torturing, murdering, burning and even burying those eight men. (Not to mention the fact that they were on Safari along the Ituni Road).
And I would also welcome an explanation as to why “Fine man” would be concerned with destroying forensic evidence in the jungle……………a man who brutally murdered innocent men, women and children for all to see.

This nonsense the Joint Services continue to put out reminds me of the “sensible Bill” / “stupidee Bill” stories of old…………………remember the shoot-out between the GPF and bandits in Corentyne not too long ago?………the one where the bandits stopped to pick up all but one of their spent shells afterwards

It’s high time the people of Guyana demand results from their elected officials. Are they not elected to serve and protect? And if they don’t then there is always the next election.

[Reply to this]
sandy
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 6:38 pm:
Don’t count on it. The Guyanese electorate has a very short memory.

[Reply to this]
rk
on June 27th, 2008 3:07 pm

Fineman and his gang are pigs.

What world are we living in when eight miners get massacred and the public is leaning in defense of the pigs that were known to be in the area. Unbelievable.

Poster are commenting:

did fineman shoot the cop on woolford ave ?

Any killing or robery in Guyana the blame goes to “Fineman”

I knew it was “Fineman” who committed the crime [sarcasm].

All of us who have been keeping up with the news know those murders would eventually be pinned to him.

Fineman appears to have a defense team. Unbelievable.
Does anyone here believe that Fineman and his pigs was responsible for the massacres in Lusignan and Bartica?

[Reply to this]
caprice59
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 10:54 pm:
It appears as though with all the conflicting reports and statements issued ,that someone still cannot find somethings as being odd and want answers it is time to get real.SO MUCH weapons and ammunition left behind one killed at Christmas falls two at Kwakwani another captured and another shot and killed. How many were initially at Christmas falls?How many are still on the run? Nobody is in defence of criminals except lawyers who are paid to do so, but when something stinks what do yo do. A spade is a spade not a pliers.

[Reply to this]
LoveGT4Real
In reply to the above comment on June 28th, 2008 12:22 am:
rk I think U need to keep things in perspective here. If you “slant” the real issue in this way you will be misleading people (unintentionally I hope).

I would submit that almost 100% of the guyanese population agree that “fine man” and his group were responsible for Lusignan and Bartica. I know of no one who would not breathe a sigh of relief at his eventual capture or death.

The thing is, the comments to which you refer were made out of pure frustration with the way the GPF and the ruling administration are handling the crime situation. Innocent people are being slaughtered and all the “powers that be” could come up with is “we are investigating”

What the guyanese people are saying RK, is that we are fed up with the obvious incompetence of the GPF. Fingering known criminals, and blaming them for every crime committed does not prevent the indiscriminate and brutal slaughter of people. Blaming the Fine Man gang did not prevent the death of those miners.

We the Citizens of Guyana are demanding, among other things, that the GPF conduct proper investigative work, we demand that the GPF become proactive in dealing with this embarrassing crime situation, we demand that Government and the opposition parties speak with one voice on this issue.
Any party seeking to gain political mileage out of the lawlessness plaguing Guyana should be ashamed to call themselves Guyanese.

And for the record, I have personally known the Arokiums in excess of two decades. As a little boy Dax Played in my yard on many occasions, so for me this is very personal.

[Reply to this]
Twinkle Toe
on June 27th, 2008 4:42 pm

I hope that the Police bring in Mr Arokium for questioning. He gave false impression to the Media and all Guyana that the Security Forces were in volved in the murders and he was so certain of it.

Secondly, why didn’t he have his employees removed from the camp after he was told to do so? Something looks fisy here.

[Reply to this]
Cheryl
In reply to the above comment on June 27th, 2008 8:30 pm:
Twinkle Toe!, Good question. myself and u smell a fish, from Bourda Market to here.

[Reply to this]
LoveGT4Real
In reply to the above comment on June 28th, 2008 1:02 am:
Twinkle Toe, Cheryl and Gold, please consider this scenario:

As the owner of the mining operation you receive word that your men, including your child, were murdered my members of the JS. You subsequently traveled to the camp and made the gruesome discovery

To the best of your knowledge this is what you know to be truth:

(a) The JS were conducting an operation within proximity to your camp
(b) The JS descended on the criminals killing one and forcing the rest to flee
(c) The area is now swarming with JS personnel
(d) Several days later you receive word that there was a “wash” at your camp
(e) further on you learnt that two criminals were killed approximately 90 miles away

Now tell me, how would any of you respond to this?
Would you rush off to the nearest police station (interior and all) even though you believe that they are suspects?

Come on guys, keep it real ok, and remember the adage ‘those who feel it knows it”

I do think however that Len (Leonard) made two blunders.
He should have remover his men from that camp until the area was swept clean by the JS, and also he should have gone to the camp prepared to record whatever evidence was there to greet him…..then again, we have to consider the frame of mind he must have been in.

[Reply to this]
gold
on June 27th, 2008 8:29 pm

Hmmmm…the plot thickens…..

[Reply to this]
optimistic pessimist
on June 27th, 2008 9:36 pm

The pessimistic part of me is thinking that there could be another scenario to this killing.

Suppose our brave trigger-happy armed forces while in hot pursuit stumbles across that well hidden camp and incorrectly supposing that they had successfully managed to locate Fineman and his gang, opens fire and kills all of the miners.

See, our armed forces do not have a track record of capturing dangerous criminals alive. Thinking tactically, other armed forces may have surrounded the camp, fortified themselves, then shout that the camp was surrounded and demand surrender. Of course there may have been an ensuing firefight with potential casualties on both sides. A callous and unprofessional way to minimize casualties on the side of the armed forces was to strike without warning and obliterate the camp. Trouble with that course of action is that if the wrong camp was attacked then innocent citizens would be killed.

This could have in fact be exactly what happened. and realizing their mistake our brave armed forces could have in fact kept quiet about it and then a week later have their leader state that they had found the tell-tale shell castings that conveniently pointed to Fineman and his gang.

Hmmm! Nah, dat is not what happen, what am I thinking???

[Reply to this]
optimistic pessimist
on June 27th, 2008 9:46 pm

Additionally, this type of slaughter and then destroy forensic evidence has not been the illusive Fineman’s gang modus operandi to date. Are we to suppose that he now has a new modus operandi, or maybe he has modified his previous one… Is it more likely that this atrocity was in fact done by perpetrators with something to hide necessitating an all consuming bonfire?

Well is mussie only me nah???

[Reply to this]
gtagricola
on June 27th, 2008 10:27 pm

Greene could not of make any comment he had to wait to be briefed by Jagdeo and Luncheon. As one comment was made about fineman being dead, that commentor could be so true.

[Reply to this]
sirlan
on June 27th, 2008 10:42 pm

Naw ‘pessimist optimist is not only u.U seem 2 hav an open mind as most of de odr bloggers,xcept 4 d ones dat smell n fish and dose dat sayn dat Mr. Arokium gave false info.Mr. Arokium gave a demonstration complete with a topographic map of the said area,n based on info dat de said police had given 2 de news media on their position and dat of ‘fineman’ gang in which he showed what would have had 2 have happened 4 dat gang 2 commit the crime.And do u guys know dat one of the two soldiers sent in with the guide to locate the camp went missin? do u kno dat d guide and these two were the first 2 enter the camp and that the shells that were reportedly found were fuond when the guide’s back was turned from that direction.I can state more but i leave it here as a family member of one of the deceased we have more inside info on d site and its condition when first reached.De soldier dat went missin was left behind ,I hear he finally found his way out ,n dat makes u wonder about d gun dey dug up.I kno u ain’t hear dat 1 yet

[Reply to this]
Ricardo
on June 30th, 2008 10:28 am

Viewing from Mr. Arokium’s topography on the lo. and RUPMAN I think they are pretty knowledgeable of the area but Mr. Greene had to await instructions from Picture Director. Jags and Editor Luncheon. to release the Story as Henry not making sense

[Reply to this]