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Two Fineman ‘cohorts’ were killed far from Christmas Falls
-Sash Sawh bank cards found on them
Two suspected members of the `Fineman’ gang were killed by police 90 miles away from where they were thought to be cornered at Christmas Falls and law enforcers say they retrieved a large amount of ammunition and two bank cards belonging to slain Minister of Agriculture, Satyadeow Sawh.
Crime Chief, Seelall Persaud said the criminals are running out of options and the end for them is near. He told Stabroek News in an invited comment last evening that there had been no further developments in the pursuit of the gunmen who first eluded them at Christmas Falls, two weeks ago and on Monday hijacked a minibus on the Aroaima trail.
Shortly after the hijacking of a busload of passengers travelling from Aroaima to Linden around 4 am Monday, Persaud said the joint services ranks picked up a suspect, a 14-year-old boy and later engaged two of the gunmen in a shootout during which both of them were killed.
In a press release sent to Stabroek News just after midnight yesterday, the police said during the course of Monday ranks of a Joint Services team encountered two armed men in the Goat Farm area, Berbice River, which is between Aroaima and Kwakwani and located some 90 miles from Christmas Falls. Police said there was an exchange of gunfire during which the two men were shot and killed. Two AK-47 rifles and a quantity of ammunition have been recovered, the release said, adding that the Joint Services are working on information that others are in the area and are combing the area. Up to press time last night there was no positive identifications of the two dead men and Persaud said although the police had an idea who they are he would not speculate without official confirmation.
Reports are that the dead men are Cecil Simeon Ramcharran, 54, also known as ‘Uncle Willie,’ and a man identified as ‘Chung Boy.’ Both men’s names appeared on a police wanted bulletin earlier this year in connection with several murders and robberies. The men’s bodies were flown out from the jungle yesterday afternoon and are at the Georgetown Hospital mortuary awaiting autopsies.
In a statement last evening the joint services said that along with the two AK 47 rifles, 781 7.62 x 39 rounds, nine AK-47 magazines, ten 16-gauge cartridges and eight 12-gauge cartridges were recovered by the Joint Services.
In addition a quantity of foodstuff, a variety of clothing, cellular phones, documents, basic medical supplies and other articles were found in their possession. These include: One Republic Bank Visa Card, one Canadian Bank Gold Card and one Bwee Miles Card in the name of Satyadeow Sawh. Further, the police recovered, one kerosene stove and cooking utensils, 11 GT&T cell phone chips, three Digicel cell phone chips; three cellular phones; two torchlights; one pocket radio; one Qu’ran; one New Testament, one Bible. The Joint Services added that it will continue operations in the area aimed at interdicting the other wanted men who managed to elude the security forces at Christmas Falls, Berbice River.
Asked about their operations now to capture the remaining gunmen, Persaud said the security forces were still executing their plan. He acknowledged that following Monday’s hijacking of the minibus, the gunmen might be closer to civilization, but this he said would not deter ranks from pursuing them.
“We will go after them wherever the trail leads,” Persaud declared.
Reports are that following the June 6 shoot-out at Christmas Falls where Otis’ Mud-up’ Fifee was killed, the gunmen numbering over ten split up into two groups. One of the groups was headed by Ramcharran, which from all accounts was intercepted following the hijacking.
Rawlins and another group of gunmen are said to have headed in another direction. Expressing optimism that Rawlins and the rest of the gang would be captured, Persaud told Stabroek News that all the signs are showing that his network was growing thin. He pointed out that over recent weeks the security forces had been able to haul in a number of suspects associated to the criminal gang Rawlins heads. “We are seeing high men in his organization going down and more and more we are capturing his men so it is clear the end for him is near,” Persaud a senior superintendent declared.
Weighing in on the subject Home Affairs Minister, Clement Rohee said he did not expect the gunmen to give up although it is clear they have run out of time speed and space. Rohee said that more and more evidence was unfolding of the extent of the men’s atrocities, noting the discovery of a credit card belonging to slain agriculture minister Sawh on one of the gunmen, the contents of Rawlins’ diary and some of the confessions those detained have made. “So they will not give up,” Rohee said when asked why the gunmen were still fighting, adding that the stakes were heavily stacked against them.
“The criminal enterprise being run by these men is slowly and surely dismantling…they are running out of time, speed and space,” the Home Affairs Minister declared. Sawh, two of his siblings and a security guard were slain in the early hours of April 21, 2006. Police had pinned the killings on the Buxton/Agricola criminal gang and Rawlins and several others were named in a wanted bulletin. However, reports later surfaced that Sawh’s killing was the work of a different architect, who might have contracted Rawlins’ gang to execute it.
Pretended
Meanwhile, up to press time last night the driver of the minibus that was hijacked was still in police custody. Investigators who interviewed him told this newspaper that the man said he was on his way to Linden when the gunmen intercepted the vehicle and hijacked it. Stabroek News was told that the minibus with number plate BGG 501 had left the Aroaima compound at about 3 am Monday heading for Linden but returned at about 9:45 with the same passengers. Sources told Stabroek News that while on the trail, a teenager who appeared to be not older than 14 years old stopped the bus and pretended to be joining it when a group of other men approached the bus. The source said all the men were decked out in army-type clothing and wore bulletproof vests. The source said among items taken from the passengers, who included bauxite company workers and two babies, were their cellular phones and identification cards. Asked whether the teenager in custody was the person who flagged down the minibus, Persaud said no, adding that from what he was told the teenager was found in Ituni, several miles from the Aroaima trail where the minibus was hijacked.
On June 6 members of the joint services responding to intelligence reports that Rawlins and his men were hiding out at Christmas Falls some 300 miles up the Berbice River, descended on the forested area. Once there they came under fire from around seven men, one of whom was Fifee who was shot and killed. The other six men, including Rawlins however managed to escape leaving behind a cache of arms and ammunition, some of which has been confirmed by police as having been stolen from the Bartica Police station the night that community came under siege by gunmen. The security forces had also discovered that the men were housed in an area with four buildings. They had foodstuff to last several weeks in a large kitchen, which also had a gas stove, generator and solar energy. In addition, there were six portable tents, four hammocks, three mattresses, a mini-stereo system, a DVD player, a cell phone, a hand-held radio set, clothing, medical supplies and a Bible.
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138 Responses to “Two Fineman ‘cohorts’ were killed far from Christmas Falls”
Ivorine
on June 18th, 2008 5:58 amSounds like the Arm forces are doing a good job and why would one of those criminals carrying the late agriculture minister personal documents.Something sounds fishy here.
timeless
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 9:12 am:exactly my thoughts - why would they be carrying the Minister’s cards?
timeless
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 9:16 am:i’m also wondering if this is ’some people’s’ way of appeasing Roger khan so he and them can cover their misdeeds… it won’t work - the truth has a way of coming out it’s like a full term baby ready to birth and nothing can stop that (except death of course).
raulcedras
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 11:13 am:Timeless
I would not agreed with you on that one. DEATH WILL NEVER STOP IT. Many high ranking ones already got their panties tied up in da bunch. They are too ashamed to die
ms guyana
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 2:27 pm:a couple years after sash sawh dead uncle willie shopping in the jungle with his credit cards and booking BWEE frequent flier miles!
nice one fellas. keep it up
if it wasn’t so tragic this would’ve won the oscar for comedy of the year
BOEING777
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 3:19 pm:No, this couldn’t win any oscars. Too much of “who shot John”
It reeks of illusions!!!
stabruk
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 11:13 pm:why ???????
becauz guyanese crimmal dumb, maybe he think that he can go and use the credit card at wal mart
ha ha
clema
on June 18th, 2008 6:08 amBravo bravo bravo looking like the end is really near 4 the rawlins gang i know that this will happen TO ALL THE CITIZENS AND IMPATIENT COUNTERPARTS PATIENCE IS VIRTUE WE NEED TO HAVE FAITH AND MOST OF ALL IN THE LAW ENFORCFMENT OFFICIALS EVERY THING TAKES TIME WE MIGHT NOT GET THE CHANCE TO SEE THEM SUFFER IN JAIL BUT SO IT BE.
alexmarcos
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 6:00 pm:You are putting your faith wrongfully some other place. In the law enforcement officials? We, as a nation, needs the truth from them in all their investigations.
bvbocan
on June 18th, 2008 6:38 amThis fine man fallacy is becoming ridiculous now. Is there a crime that the so-call fine man gang is not responsible for? Heck, the government and their crony police is now even going back into old cases and pinning them on fine man.
Let me be frank… I don’t for a second, buy the fine man story. It was a fabrication created by the government and the police to defer blame for the Lusignan killings. Anyone who hasn’t drunk the government’s kool-aid knows that those killings were not done a mindless criminal gang. We know who orchestrated those killings and why. However, the press is afraid to investigate or speak out for fear of having their media organization targeted like Sharma’s. And let’s face, Guyana is not a full democracy and does not have a healthy free independent press. The over censoring of public speech or government critique by the media supports that argument.
It makes me sick to hear these continuous lies and public spin about the fine man gang. Does anyone with a mind really think that those credit cards were not planted on the two dead men? Give me a break. This is the biggest fairy tale I’ve ever heard.
yamese69
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 8:20 am:I really do agree with everything you said. I hope they never caught fineman
DAFA 75
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 8:35 am:Yamese69, stop talkin stupidness, they must catch him, the future of Guyana rests on that fact. He must hand himself in to the americans. That the only way out for him
The goverment will not allow him his day in court. he is a dead man walking. if he exists
buxton_man
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 8:39 am:Fineman is like Bigfoot…..imaginary!
raulcedras
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 11:17 am:If fineman do exist, I would like for them to capture fineman ALIVE. By all means necessary.
Karter 1
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 11:17 am:U tell that to all the families this animal disrupted.The should hang him by his Ba–lls
raulcedras
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 8:38 am:yamese69
I feel the same way as you do
Ricardo
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 9:53 am:Fineman is not a figment of imagination he is for real and should be captured thoroughly interrogated as to the source/s of his supplies and survival. We may all be in for a big surprise at the names that will be called. For justice on him well it is surely 10001 death sentences and if they are afraid to carry out the death penalty on him I VOLUNTEER! and as i said before FINEMAN IS REAL
ah806
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 10:08 am:Quote from bvbocan: “We know who orchestrated those killings and why. ” I don’t know, do you mind sharing? It is amazing you all the way in Canada and probably already given up your guyanese passport and know all this stuff. Some of you only believe what you want to.
raulcedras
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 11:21 am:I am in full support with bvbocan. I 100% support his statement. ” We know who orchestrated those killings & why. “‘ It will lead to one direction the Government with their ulterior motive of blaming everything on the PNC. Good luck to them with that. This is not a figment of my imagination.
bvbocan
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 11:57 am:It certainly is not my fault that you seem to be in the minority who don’t know why and who were the mastermind of the Lusignan & Bartica killings. Is it willful refusal to admit the obvious? Keep drinking the GOG ‘s kool aid. I hope you remember where it got the converts of Jim Jones.
Karter 1
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 6:12 pm:I really would like u to share with us who orchestrated these killings.Maybe the Police should bring u in for ????
bluegrass
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 7:18 pm:sure, burnham received US$2m. from jj before he drank the cool aid.
every one in buxton were denying that they had any criminals there, how is it possible the parents are now claiming them.
this shows that the parents were involved and encouraging their children to join the gang, so that they can create havoc in the society, further more there might be bigger fish involved and its only a matter of time, the weak will sing.
amen-ra
on June 18th, 2008 6:54 amTHIS NEWS IS SO CONFLICTING I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE ANYMORE. FIRST IF THE MINISTER WAS KILLED TWO YEARS AGO WHY WASN’T HIS BANK CARDS DEACTIVATED IN THE US WHEN SOME ONE CARD IS MISSING OR STOLEN IT IS IMMEDIATELY REPORTED AND THE CARD DEACTIVATED OR IF NOT THE BANK WOULD NOTIFY THE CARD HOLDER IF THEY NOTICED UNAUTHORIZED PURCHASES ON THE CARD AND STOP IT. SECONDLY THE DRIVER SAID THAT THE TEEN WAS NOT THE PERSON WHO STOPPED THE BUS SO WHY IS THE POLICE STILL HOLDING HIM ALSO IN THE NEWS IT WAS REPORTED HE WAS SHIRTLESS. THIRDLY THE MEN WHO HELD UP THE MINIBUS WERE SAID TO HAVE ON UNIFORM AND BULLET PROOF VEST, IF FINEMANS’ GANG RAN FROM THEIR HIDE OUT LEAVING SO MANY GUNS AND AMMUNITION WHERE AND HOW DID THEY ACQUIRE THESE BULLET PROOF VEST AND ARMS. SOMETHING IS NOT UP HERE AND IT’S SMELLS FISHY. THESE ARE JUST SOME OF MY ANALYSIS.
raulcedras
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 8:39 am:As Guyanese we need to start lobbying the United Nations for Justice
bluegrass
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 7:20 pm:did the UN commit the crimes.
ah806
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 9:58 am:First of all no one said the bank card is still active. Did you ever think of a reason why he still has the Minister’s card on him? I guess not, he is a RECRUITER for the gang, by showing new members the Minister’s card he is automatically establishing his superiority and capability within the gang.
Second of all, the police never said he was the one who stopped the bus. He CONFESSED to being part of the gang. Should the police still let him go?
Thirdly, lets not forget that this is an established gang/organization. Those in Christmas falls were already identified and wanted by the police, that is why they were hiding in the jungle. Other members still exist, those in the uniform are in panic mode now and coming out of their hole.
Vanie
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 11:24 am:I agree with your comment. Also from my understanding the youth who was arrested was unable to keep up with the pace of others and he was delirious and straving, so he would not have been one with the gang at that time when the bus was stopped.
GT_BANA
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 11:42 am:I am pretty sure it’s still active because it would not have been in their possession after two years. Also during the time his supposedly pregnant girlfriend went missing, it was reported by KN that Fineman informed them that he did not killed the minister. So your statement about him being a RECRUITER doesn’t make sense to me. Also would you want to hold onto any evidence that would link you to a murder???? If Fineman needed publicity and wanted to RECRUIT he would have outrightly revealed that he was responsible for the murder of the minister.
ah806
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 3:43 pm:Your logic weak. I have a credit that is not active in my possession. Oh, so because he said he didn’t kill the minister we should accept that.
Read KN the RECRUITER i am talking about is the dead one.
Also would you want to hold onto any evidence that would link you to a murder????
That is because of arrogance and ignorance
owenon123
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 2:51 pm:Amen-ra:
The Crime Chief, Seelall Persaud and Home Affairs Minister, Clement Rohee cannot fool intelligent people bro.
These officials are trying to confuse citizens mind. Read as follows:
“Two suspected members of the `Fineman’ gang were killed by police 90 miles away from where they were thought to be cornered at Christmas Falls and law enforcers say they retrieved a large amount of ammunition and two bank cards belonging to slain Minister of Agriculture, Satyadeow Sawh.”
“In addition a quantity of foodstuff, a variety of clothing, cellular phones, documents, basic medical supplies and other articles were found in their possession.”
This clearly shows that is two different groups of wanted criminals. What really happened is the Joint Services ran into another group of wanted-criminal and killed them in the process, which clearly shows “fineman” and this crew is vanished from their sight.
Whom I their right sense would keep invalid bankcards in their possession after two years? The investigators probably was using highest grade on the day of probing the criminals they shot dead.
The authorities know exactly who is responsible for the slain Minister of Agriculture, Satyadeow Sawh.
DAFA 75
on June 18th, 2008 7:42 amWhen you think that nothing can surprise you, something always does, does this government expect people to believe, that after all this time, a bunch of criminals who have outwitted the Armed services, supposedly carried out numerous crimes, evaded police, kept one Republic Bank Visa Card, one Canadian Bank Gold Card and one Bwee Miles Card in the name of Satyadeow Sawh, It leaves me to wonder if they were going shopping, or they thought they can get air miles by travelling from lets see, Buxton, Bartica, Linden, Christmas Falls, Aroaima and Kwakwani.
Who long is this government going to feed the people of Guyana Bull, how long?
Why is it that they can never find anybody alive, Ohh I forget, because this is one big Nancy story, all for one reason, mobilising the party base.
To think this is what I studied all those years for, to come home to a country run by a pack of?????/??? (fill in the blanks yourselves).
Ricky
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 9:56 am:DAFA your thoughts are great. I thought bandits and criminals disposed of all criminating items from their taking that is of no use or can be held against them if caught with. Maybe they were on their way to the National Archives or Castelli House or New garden Street to lodge them so that the items could have been properly Archived for future generation.
The Weapons find - We should ship these guy off to IRAQ or Mountains of Afganistan and Pakistan. The can easily find armor to destroy the Taliban and the terror Network.
MS_msprobe
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 11:13 am:Don’t you know when a Guyanese have a credit card even though they ain know how to used it they will cherish it. At lease if this gang was found with it we all know who kill the minister. How many GT’s know about using a credit card?
raulcedras
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 11:24 am:Ricky
Your idea of shipping guys off to Iraq or Afghanistan & Pakistan is good, but let us start with the Government first.
BOEING777
on June 18th, 2008 8:21 amNow every crime was committed by the so called ‘fine name’
The propaganda machinery is in full force.
Let’s brace ourselves for more of it!
Ha ha ha.
darkchild
on June 18th, 2008 8:29 amWhat a FARCE!!!!!! How come the cards is be found on two young black men years after the Minister was killed……Yet no one is saying anything about the Roger Khan Drama…this Goverment has a lot to answer…in the long term I hope the Guyanese people will remember how this Goverment twists words and outcome of these things…
I hope the UN get involved to launch an inquiry about the entire Roger Khan saga….I hope that organisations like the Human rights have a list of names of ALL those who commit crimes against Humanity in Guyana….all the policemen/women, Politicians…..this is far from over…they must be held accountable…at last I hope Roger Khan rot in SUPERMAX forever.
ah806
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 10:34 am:Roger khan getting deal with accordingly. The focus is on destroying the “freedom fighters” gang.
bvbocan
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 1:40 pm:Hey ah806, according Guyanese in Queens, New York and the rural parts of Guyana, Roger Khan is also a “freedom fighter”.
Apparently he was fighting for the rights of the so-called “Guyanese businessmen” to conduct their export business uninhibited by the D,E.A.
And we know what they are exporting, don’t we ah806?
raulcedras
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 1:45 pm:ah806
The focus is on the government not freedom fighters. If the government was doing what it ought to do there wud be no freedom fighter.
jerry
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 3:54 pm:raulcedras it means that manning is not doing his job that’s why there are so many kidnappings and murders in TT.
ah806
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 3:54 pm:bvbocan, If that is true then the guyanese in Queens NY and rural parts of Guyana are equally stupid and ignorant as those who are calling these criminals freedom fighter.
Like I said, I am no supported of Roger Khan, PNC, or PPP. I am calling it as it is.
Satish
on June 18th, 2008 8:47 amThat the evil Ramcharran and some of his pals are now dead cannot be disputed, it seems to me.
Well done Guyana Forces. You are indeed earning your bonuses, medals and citations. On behalf of the Lusignan and Bartica dead we thank you for your earnest endeavours and wish you luck in moping up the rest of these uncivilized animals.
Truthfully I have more confidence in the GPF than I have in the Guyana judiciary. Congratulations to Crime Chief Seelall Persaud.
BOEING777
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 11:22 am:I saw fineman in NY this past weekend… ha ha ha.
Carl
on June 18th, 2008 9:09 amI believe that after they fled Christmas Falls, the alleged members of Fineman’s gang used Sash Sawh’s bank and credit cards to buy food and clothing, just like they did before they went to Christmas Falls. Look, Rohee and the police may as well pretend that they are telling Brer Anancy stories to little children.
Anyway, given that the police were able to publicly name some of the murdered and still-at-large suspects, how could they not be aware of their ages? In my view, the police are well aware of the political implications of informing the world that boys barely into their teens are being sought as suspects in some of the most gruesome crimes our country has known.
Yes, the police want to avoid the “why” question; so they avoid the age issue like a plague. But the parents and relatives of some of the boys have spoken. And they have been loud, unanimous, and unequivocal in asserting, with evidence, that police harassment is what drove their sons, brothers, and cousins into Fineman’s gang.
The police may eventually dismantle Fineman’s gang, but if they do not stop harassing our young men, the emergence of more gangs is as guaranteed as the coming of tomorrow. And the next gang(s) will be better organized and thus more resilient than Fineman’s.
I call upon President Jagdeo to address the very vexing issue of police harassment. He must insist that the police end their recently initiated practice of arresting our young men and taking them to police stations just to be photographed; he must also end the recently initiated police practice of photographing entire families during police raids of citizens’ homes. The police, in my view, should photograph no one.
I wish our nation the best of luck.
pepie
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 9:49 am:Question…someone needs to investigate to see whether Sash Sawh’s bank and credit cards for active. If they were then something is not right here. This would mean that there are highly influential persons involve in these crimes and GPF should then try to capture these guys alive, so we can get the bigger fishes.
A bank or credit card active after two years after the death of the owner, whether it is, his personal cards or government issue, this would be news.
justice4allguyana
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 2:22 pm:True. Two years after the Bank Cards turn up. Why werent they reported missing.
This nancy story i don’t believe.
Ricardo
In reply to the above comment on June 23rd, 2008 9:50 am:This is simple, if this gang is or was responsible for Minister Sawh’s killing and others there were other crimes committed that i think these criminals would have taken Credit Cards as well so why did they not keep those as well?
“You can fool some of the people, some of the time, but you can’t fool all the people all the time”
So then it makes me wonder that The goodly Minister gave them his PIN # before he died. LOOK SECURITY FORCES, GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!
Roula
on June 18th, 2008 9:16 amI hope these people are not the innocents. Why not try to arrest them or get more information from these criminals. Make deals with some of them for the informations sake.
The young man who was arrested stated that he has never seen the so call “Fine Man.” But the police said, he is one of “Fine Man disciple. now I dont know who to believe!
Let’s go back to the real issue, what Roger Khan said latterly? Investigate Roger, then we shall know alot.
Raj
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 9:44 am:Well said Roula. The media should be keeping on the Roger Khan story becuase that’s a big story where government officals and private individuals are involved.
BOEING777
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 10:47 am:It’s all an illusion to deflect attention from the current RK, QueensAtlantic, et al sagas.
GT_BANA
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 11:11 am:I agree….we need to hear more about RK and his illegal activities….
La vie est bonne!
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 7:33 pm:Well, this regime has gotten a break.. all news report are now on Fineman…
They are licking their chops as the people eat up this diversion, as the news of RKhan, etc have taken a backseat.
rupman
on June 18th, 2008 9:21 amThe road to Christmas Falls area follows the UNAMCO road along the left bank of the Berbice River. Kwakawani is on the right bank and Ituni, Aroaima and Goat Farm are on the left side of the river. All of these communities are between 80 - 100 km downriver from Christmas Falls.
Where were the camps at Christmas Falls located? If it was along the UNAMCO road, then it would have been on the left bank. This is on the same side as Ituni, Goat farm, Aroaima etc.
So how could the gunmen have used a raft to cross the Berbice river to get to Ituni? Ituni is on the same side of the river as Christmas Falls.
Also, according to all reports the gunmen were heading south which is the opposite direction to which they were located.
They were reported to be without clothes and ammunition, yet those that were located were fully armed.
Someone’s Geography is not fully fitting together on this saga. Is it the Police or the press information????????
pepie
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 9:43 am:Now this is information that we need to piece some of these reports together. Finally a blogger that knows the area well. This is why we don’ t ever believe the Police reports. We need to do something about the education level in this organisation. Only person with 5 subject CXC - Maths, English, Geography and any other two or more, should be able to join this force. I am tired of misinformation coming from GPF. tired
GT_BANA
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 10:44 am:You raised some very important points RUPMAN. Reading what you stated makes me asked the same questions.
Alli
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 12:04 pm:maybe the police smoke some of the good stuff and got disoriented. the whole story smells like a ‘plant’ by the police and the Government to deflect from Roger Khan’s admission last week.
BOEING777
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 3:05 pm:lots of ganga up in that area LOL
La vie est bonne!
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 7:30 pm:Did the police show the bank cards to the media?
I think not… why are we believing this?
It’s poposterous!!!
Ricardo
In reply to the above comment on June 23rd, 2008 10:28 am:I think the Security Forces need your Geographical knowledge to work in this area as the majoritry of us are clueless of the terrain as such with your knowledge they would be able to deploy their personnel in the right positions and the Two Helicopters could perform reconaissance bringing this chapter in Guyana’s history to a speedy closure
Raj
on June 18th, 2008 9:41 amSomething fishy is happening here. What use would Minister Sash Sawh’s bank cards be to the criminals ? I am sure his family or bank would have closed out Sash’s account after his death. Another thing even though we should deal with the criminals it would have been better for the country to capture them alive and interrogate them then get to who is behind the operation and where are the others. This does not only make sense it is good policing if you really want to rid the society of crime.
ah806
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 10:10 am:he is a RECRUITER for the gang, by showing new members the Minister’s card he is automatically establishing his superiority and capability within the gang.
Raj
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 1:17 pm:ah8066, you seem to have inside information. Want to share it with us or the police?
ah806
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 3:46 pm:Raj, I guess because I didn’t agree with you and others I have inside information. IT IS BIG AN BOLD IN KN WHAT INSIDE INFORMATION.
BTW I am a realist.
Guy99
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 6:11 pm:Is this the same man who kept a diary of his day to day activities? Showing someone bank card does not establish superiority in a gang. This story is not adding up.
Ricardo
In reply to the above comment on June 23rd, 2008 9:57 am:Keeping a Credit Card to show superiority makes no sense also this would be so incriminating.
With a 50,000,000, i mean 50,000,000 on this gang leaders head not one of his subjects was willing to risk their lives for it. then again the subject may not have gotten the reward so my guess is that’s why no one wants to give the info as they would be dead with no reward.
Talk half leff Half!!
Vanie
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 11:36 am:I would agree that the criminals be captured alive and be interrogated. But then again how would one capture criminals alive in a shooting confrontation. Come on people some of us needs to sound sensible here. The youth who was found on the trail was captured alive, and still is, isn’t he?
Raj
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 1:18 pm:Vanie, good policing will ensure criminals, especially of such high profile, are captured alive. Don’t make excuses for bad policing.
raulcedras
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 1:25 pm:Raj
It is good policing if they can rid the society of the criminals in government
Vanie
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 2:56 pm:Raj…if there was good policing in the first place this situation would have hardly escalated to this point. So I am being realisitic… the Police Force and the GDF need qualified, honest and well trained officers (some officers may be but not all) to deal with cases as such. So, if cold blooded criminals are caught dead or alive, we are lucky that they have been captured.
INXS
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 7:53 pm:one time some believed that fineman ain’t clever enough to keep a diary, this timesome think that these men are smart enough to know these cards might be invalid.
rupman
on June 18th, 2008 10:14 amAnother very worrying issue is that there are many logging trails that leave the Linden - Ituni - Aroaiama - Kwakawani - UNAMCO Road heading west to the upper reaches of the Demerara River. There are also numerous trails from the Demerara river heading to the Mabura Road.
So, if the gunmen were able to reach Goat Farm then there is every likelihood that they could have found a logging trail heading to the Demerara River from where there are numerous escape routes.
Wonder if the Police have placed the communities along the Demerara River such as Malali, Butuba, Great Falls etc on alert?
popeoplefedup
on June 18th, 2008 10:23 amI won’t even bother to challenge one sided musings of PNC sympathizers here.
Everyone, please go to KN to feel that sense of retributive justice. Two of them have been killed.
I applaud the mother who said “Live by the sword, die by the sword.” Yes the system might be oppressive, but I am testimony of struggling to get by for almost 20 years in that country without one day resorting to crime. Or worse yet, the decimation of people.
I think the only thing worse than these cretins on KN front page are those bloggers (on here and elsewhere) who cynically dispute the GPF theories while offering nothing more than their outlandish piffle.
pepie
on June 18th, 2008 10:31 amHe must be caught one way or the other and now more than ever alive - since the discovery of Sash Sawh’s Bank and Credit Cards, which may still be active.
What I can’t understand, is why they aren’t capturing these guys alive. Are we sure it is the police at work here? Remember during Shawn Brown fiasco which ended in a shootout, there were strange persons among the mist wearing ski mask, who seem to be working alongside the police. Editor, this was in the media, I saw it with my own eyes on TV. It’s time we start to think that there might be another squad set out to exterminate these so-called bandits because I’m starting to believe that the police did not kill these two men and I’ll tell you why.
From reports when they raided Fineman so call hideout and killed Otis, reports were that the other men number about six, who left with just their clothes on their backs. Now these two dead men had, “two AK 47 rifles, 781 7.62 x 39 rounds, nine AK-47 magazines, ten 16-gauge cartridges, eight 12-gauge cartridges, a quantity of foodstuff, a variety of clothing, cellular phones, documents, basic medical supplies, one Republic Bank Visa Card, one Canadian Bank Gold Card and one Bwee Miles Card in the name of Satyadeow Sawh. Further, the police recovered, one kerosene stove and cooking utensils, 11 GT&T cell phone chips, three Digicel cell phone chips; three cellular phones; two torchlights; one pocket radio; one Qu’ran; one New Testament, one Bible.” Wooo, just their clothes right! Also they were 90 miles away from Christmas falls. Let me give you an idea how far that is…from Georgetown to Linden is 65 miles by road and not a straight line. 26 miles is from Georgetown to Timehri by road again not straight line. Now imagine the two together and that’s the distance these men were from the Police. I don’t know any bushman, who runs the gold bush – and these guys are season to carrying heavy loads, can carry all these items and elude the police.
I still think there is more than one gang out there and someone or a group is wiping these men out one by one. Do any of these men have evidence against this govt. or RK? Remember when word was out that Shawn Brown was on his way to the embassy every effort was made to stop him from getting there. Are we seeing the thing playing out here now that RK case is in full swing?
Come to think about it……that spy equipment might still be in operation.
raulcedras
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 1:31 pm:The guys have alot of evidence against government officials. The day of judgement will come.
justice4allguyana
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 2:35 pm:I love your reasoning never thought about this
bluegrass
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 7:24 pm:why dont you go and try to capture someone holding an AK47.
birds
on June 18th, 2008 10:32 amThis story does not make any sense like the others said. It is like telling the children at Christmas who is Santa Claus, where is Santa and because you been so good you will get a gift.
The family of Sash Shaw voice their disappointment in this government for the poor and slow investigation into the death of the late Senior Minister Sash Shaw and his siblings. This nancy story about the Credit card - why would these guys carry a credit card that have no use to them. I am sure these Credit card was discontinue by the Canadian Bank. Dead man tell no tails, therefore are we to believe that those document was planted of those guys? I am sure those Editor having the biggest laugh on this fairy tail story. I do hope they find the person or persons who kill Ronald Waddle, the people from Kaieture News and the many others. Every Guyanese should insist that true justice prevail.
timeless
on June 18th, 2008 10:41 ami did say earleir that the we should not underestimate this gang and that they could have previously palnned out their escape routes, planted supplies, guns and ammunition at strategic points in the event that they had to escape. Seems to me that this is what happened and they did manage to escape the joint services cordon. Thankfully they were killed before they got any further. hopefully the same could be said of the entire group
MS_msprobe
on June 18th, 2008 10:54 amOh come on people lets give the GPF and GDF credit for there good works lets not be our own judge and jury in the persuit for these no hearted criminals. Lets support them and give them the courage to go on and make a change for god sake. Its time they get some credit and support after all its the tax payers money spending and it going to benefit Guyanese as a whole. Even though there are many questions to be asked lets put our heads together and help each other pull through this horrific stage Beautiful Guyana is going true. We are all mad at the security force of this country but for how long can we be when we are out of the country and do not contribute anything just blah blah in this blog. It won’t make any change. How about we if me finance our own security force if we know what to do? who is willing to put there money and who going to continue there BS! Keeps up the good works POLICE and SOLDIERS. Lets hunt them out like a roach.
kmatt
on June 18th, 2008 10:54 amPlease let my voice be heard!
What a jim cockgrin ramgoat story…GPF and the GDF never fail to surprise me…This story has more holes than the average golf course..There are more than one organized gang operating out of guyana.!! Is that so hard to believe!
raulcedras
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 1:34 pm:A little child can see that there r more than 1 gang
GT_BANA
on June 18th, 2008 11:02 am“Reports are that following the June 6 shoot-out at Christmas Falls where Otis’ Mud-up’ Fifee was killed, the gunmen numbering over ten split up into two groups. One of the groups was headed by Ramcharran, which from all accounts was intercepted following the hijacking.”
I thought it was 7 including Mud-up as was stated below…
Once there they came under fire from around seven men, one of whom was Fifee who was shot and killed. The other six men, including Rawlins however managed to escape leaving behind a cache of arms and ammunition, some of which has been confirmed by police as having been stolen from the Bartica Police station the night that community came under siege by gunmen.
SN I don’t know what to think. The information printed doesn’t add up as was stated by RUPMAN. It’s all over the place. Also, why would assassins aka Fineman gang have evidence (credit card) in their possessions that would implicate/link them to the killing of the Minister? That’s the million dollar question everyone wants to know because If I were to commit a murder, the last thing I would want is any evidence linking me to that murder…lol.
ah806
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 11:50 am:Go read up on the 101 of gang mentality and you would get a gist of why he had the Minister card on him.
raulcedras
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 1:41 pm:AH806
move from under that rock boy it may fall on u. I am going to repeat my call, BRING HIM IN ALIVE BY ALL MEANS NECESSARY. It will lead right back to the government. This not about PNC here. Has anyone ever thought for a second, with economic downturn & visionless governing that there need to be a side show. These guys were set up & it will lead right back to government. That is the reality that we are denying.
bvbocan
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 1:46 pm:Ah806, like you, I am sure the boys at freedom house have a thorough knowledge of the modus operandi of the “drug mentality”- that is why yaal can construct such an elaborate decoy as “fineman”.
jerry
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 2:38 pm:raulcedras all those kidnapping and murder that’s going on in TT you believe that Manning plan that as a side show too or Panday? If you believe they were set up why don’t you ask them to surrender to a lawyer or one of the foreign embassies in guyana and the they will be able to give the truth.
Sorry to say people have to face the consiquences for the choices they make in life.
pepie
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 4:24 pm:Ah806..
Your reasoning about gangs doesn’t add up.
Gangs take on different personality based on geographic and culture make up, as well as the type of activities the members are involved in. Take for instance, The Phantom gang is a totally different gang, with more contacts, more profitable, Politically connected, never harrass by the police until Winston Felix became the Commissioner of GPF. Ronald G gang was different also, mostly hired criminals who were manipulated from a political appointed post. The Gangs of Mexico is different from that of the Italian Mob, the Italian Mob is different from the Russian and Jewish Mob. The Columbians Cartel operates differently from other drug Cartels. Backtrackers in guyana operates different from those in Asian and Africa. So the theory that you are trying to sell here is empty. Guyana is not LA there is no Bloods and Crisp here.
So the idea that these bandit needs to prove something by walking around two years with the frm. Minister Bank and Credit cards is Ludicrous.
I repeat there is more than one gang out there.
ah806
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 9:25 pm:Pepsi, How do you know what is the personality of this gang? Listen the all have motives for their existence and I can assure you the behavior within the gangs are similar. They all try to outdo each other to gain notoriety among their peers.
Why did they take the passengers ID cards from the bus they hijacked?
pepie
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 11:38 pm:I can’t believe you asking this question. Do you think they took them as souvenirs or for used to acquire status within the gang. In my mind they took them so as to instill fear in the passengers.
timeless
on June 18th, 2008 11:04 amany gang capable of navigating the dense jungles of guyana’s terrain and come out alive and kicking (so to speak) is not to be under estimated. these are well trained, well equipped, well supported people… btw - i think the gpf could raise some money by writing a bestseller based on the diary of fineman, info from the lad they caught and the detailsof the rk saga probably titled - “Who Dunnit”.
Karter 1
on June 18th, 2008 11:14 amThe police & GDF has done a good job to get rid of these animals.They deserve what they got !!!!!!!Some of these comments make me wonder y everyone is not happy with the progress being made,Guyana is a vast jungle territory that is very un -navigable.I can tell u because I know this area pretty well.They have to hunt down these fugitives & wipe them out for all the innocent blood they have spilt.Everyone piling on the ruling Gov but what happen to 28 yrs under the Dictator Burnham.Like Corbin would be any different!!!.Guyana is the poorest country in the hemisphere After Hati thanks to the DARK PNC era!!!!!!! Let’s not forget.
malaika06
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 1:09 pm:What is your point?
Karter 1
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 6:08 pm:My point being everyone bitching when these guys get what they deserve,live by the gun ,die by it.Everyone yapping gov cant do anything when massacres happen .now something done .more yapping.
Raj
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 1:28 pm:No Karter, Guyana is in the sorry state thanks to 28+16 years of the PPP
Ricky
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 4:28 pm:Karter 1 - A Dark ERA!
Consider the ages of many of the criminals. Some were four or five or was not even born when the PPP began to rein. Who brought these boys into criminals? Check it well, it’s the PPP.
Karter 1
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 6:05 pm:yes u cant see when they have a so called protest who is involved & the chaos ensuing.PNC same dirty tatics.want to make the country ungovernable.this was MR HOYTE’s philosophy.
raulcedras
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 4:40 pm:Karter
Burnham is dead & gone. Is that how we gonna live?? In the past?? NOw wonder all those little islands are going ahead of us in technology, etc. Because 2 many of guyanese living in the past. Put a cork in it.
Karter 1
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 6:22 pm:PNC underminding any gov elected.This is their plan,dont care if it is PPP ,GAP/ROAR or else.It is PNC ‘ s aim to cause turmoil.Burnham gave out 2 hundred ak 47 to create this exact scenerio.So the past will affect the present & future.unless PNC rules again.They have the support of over half the population.U know of the armed resistance of Buxton.Freedom fighters.Read some history & u will see ,who fail to remember the past is bound to repeat it,so I see dark days comming.
pepie
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 4:45 pm:Karter1..
I am happy the we are ridding the society of these criminals but don’t you think it would be wise for us to bring them in alive. Wouldn’t it give us a better understanding of the “WHY” that we all seek. We want them capture, interrogate, pass through the judicial system and then sentence to death. Why is it you don’t want the system to work? The GPF needs to do away with this culture of not wanting to write reports, it is time they take pride in their work. Its 42 years since Independece and the system has not worked properly one day yet; Shouldn’t we give it a chance to work or when should we give it a chance?
I feel sorry for those people who only defense for this administration is to attack the PNC. If the average age of these gangs is 18, how could you blame the PNC when the current administration is now in its 16th year in office?
Karter 1
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 6:02 pm:u have to remember they went through the penal system already,killed a cop escaping,u want that over again
kmatt
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 6:41 pm:Karter 1
First,the reason why there are some many negative attitudes is because the stories don’t make sense..2 plus 2 is not 5…Get it…
Secondly, i am no pro PPP or PNC, i am pro humanity. There is a need for justice for all..Forget the divisive politics..Brotherman CHANGE is what we need!
Karter 1
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 9:55 pm:yeah,Justice is what is needed.We have to forget the divinsive politics for sure.U go and see when they have a protest who u find there.Tell that to PNCR .The entire population is already bred on this dirty politics just as it is in the US.Indian VS African .I’m just calling it the way I see it as a Guyanese who thanked GOD i left .Change is what is needed for sure
Onverwagt1
In reply to the above comment on June 21st, 2008 4:11 pm:Karter 1
What is your point? as Guyanese we know what to expect when-ever a pr otest is called, who shows up at a protest involving sugar workers? bet not the PNC and as u mention America,who shows up at Immigration protests ?bet not Indians nor Africans Get your facts together.do’nt dwell on the dirty politics thing Guyana is not singular ,A good government with the interest of it’s people will have the respect of its citizens.
malaika06
In reply to the above comment on June 22nd, 2008 10:20 pm:Karter1
Ramble, ramble, ramble, blah, blah, blah!!! U make absolutely no sense
Nuff
on June 18th, 2008 11:25 amCould it be that as the US lets the cat out of the bag that those who know what happened in 2002 and once worked for the phantoms must now die?
GT_BANA
on June 18th, 2008 11:26 amI am a bit puzzled at some of the evidence recovered which were one Qu’ran; one New Testament, one Bible. Seems to me these men were muslim and christian followers. I thought members of a gang share common ideas and have the same belief system. I believe this Fineman saga is a CONSPIRACY….
raulcedras
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 1:51 pm:GT_BANA
Fineman & his crew were in Iran & afghanistan having some training with the taliban. They changed religion from christian to muslim
kayb
on June 18th, 2008 11:41 amHey bloggers, seems like we all have something in common and that is the welfare of the remaining citizens of Guyana. Rupman, thanks for the geography lesson.
Some people would like the United Nations to step in but this is not the correct forum. Send letters to the UN and support the AFC (whether you like the party or not) . It’s for a cause.
Guyanese, especially those employed by the United Nations should become involved. From their salary, an amount is deducted as part of a contribution for Guyana’s membership to the United Nations.
Alli
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 12:09 pm:you should start by making the first contribution since you seem to know about the UN salary structure.
raulcedras
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 1:49 pm:kayb
I fully support that. I am with such exercise. We need to stand up to the devil & tell him off.
HyBriD
on June 18th, 2008 11:58 amWhy are you fools worrying so much about the Credit cards & bank cards? Don’t you have the intelligence to figure out that they would obviously be closed by now? The criminal kept them as souvenirs! They belonged to a Minister for Pete’s sake! Guyanese criminals don’t beleive in destroying evidence, because they never beleive in getting caught, neither do they think so far ahead.
GT_BANA
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 2:33 pm:Are you serious???? You are talking nonsense…
HyBriD
In reply to the above comment on June 18th, 2008 4:06 pm:What’s your take?
billgates
on June 18th, 2008 12:18 pmI remember reading how come the police never find money and how these bandits are not walking around with “visa cards” will that theory went out the door whit this discovery why would the bandits still have the minister credit card 2 years after his death, was the card active, when last it was used, where it was used and to buy what I need to know that
Alicia
on June 18th, 2008 12:27 pmI am wondering if they are going to find any articles belonging to Monica Reese on these men? With one felled swooped the authorities might solve a decade of murders. This is great stuff (sarcasm)
Imausar
on June 18th, 2008 12:39 pmI’ll make my comment by using the last sentence in paragraph 13, and I quote “However, reports later surfaced that Sawh’s killing was the work of a different architect, who might have contracted Rawlins’ gang to execute it.”
Like et al, I also believe that this story is like carrying water in a basket. As a law enforcement officer, this story doesn’t add up. Allow me to ask these questions, was Rawlins gang working for Roger Khan and other? Remember George Bacchus had stated that there was a group, which make up; may have included business persons and officials who were responsible for the killing spree between 2002 and 2004. Did Khan order the contract on the Sawh’s killing? It’s evident, and would appear that since Khan’s Lawyer made the statement that the government was involve in purchasing the surveillance equipment “this is a serious allegation”, everything went bunkers for those involved.
It’s also important to include the case of the beheaded business man in this matter. Sawh was a Canadian Citizen; his death would have been reported to the authorities including financial bodies. So what was the reason for the co-call criminals having his cards on them? This doesn’t make sense. What is clear is when Khan decides to cooperate with authorizes, all heads will roll. So the smoke screen is to prevent Khan from talking because when he does (not if) politic as you know it, will show its evil face.
PS: Is it me or not, I’ve notice a lot of expensive property going up for sale. “Open your mind; you’ll see the big picture.” What ever happen in darkness, will come to light “your karma is result of your derma/your life now is what you live in the past.
Hotep.
stone80
on June 18th, 2008 1:16 pmIt seems like the fine man network have a lot of supporters on this site.It is just a matter of time before they have to smell daisy by the root.The credit card was his trophy(he had never seen one before).Too many people talking nonsense here,they should be living in guyana and had to run from bullets.RK did the gov a favour in taking out some of these weed from society.These US residents don’t know how the feds collobrate with the criminals to get at others.ha ha.SO if fine man is linked to the PNCwhat will happen next.Waitng ……………. to be continued.